Myth: Roberto Duran has a better resume than Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NoNeck, Mar 12, 2022.


  1. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    It's total nonsense. The strength and superiority of Durans resume over most greats is just one of those boxing truisms which simply can't be argued.
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I am not saying that it means nothing.

    I am saying that it meant a fraction of what it could have meant.
     
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A "fraction" is harsh imo. Would have been better in 2010, in their primes, just like Hagler-Leonard would have been better in 1982, but I wouldn't say it only meant a fraction because it happened five years later.

    There is the IV business that devalues it, though, and that Pac wasn't allowed to take his legal painkiller.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2023
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    It wasn't over a legal painkiller.

    Pacquiao already had a TUE for the following substances: "Pacquiao did disclose on the medical forms the five medications he was taking: “Lidocaine, Bupivacaine, Celestone, PRP, Toradal [sic].” PRP stands for platelet-rich plasma, and Toradol is a painkiller whose use is deemed controversial in many sports circles."

    Celestone is a pretty major PED in my book because it prevents soreness from training (corticosteroid). Pacquiao didn't disclose an injury on his preflight form, so it made no sense for him to receive a ketorolac injection or whatever NSAID it was. And he'd already listed Toradol right on the form. Despite being a walking pharmacy, he still probably would've gotten the final TUE if he'd disclosed an injury.
     
  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    And it means more because Mayweather was 38 and fading. Pacquiao still had miles in the tank and additional 147 belts to win.

    Mayweather isn't Superman.
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "In the dressing room before the fight, Team Pacquiao asked that a physician they had brought with them be allowed to inject Pacquiao with Toradol, a non-steroidal, pain-killing, anti-inflammatory drug." Its only use would have been to ease pain from a de facto injury.

    Yes, team Pac has to take responsibility for ****ing up the form, but for everyone who wanted both as close to their best as possible this was a let down. You don't want form filling ability to have any potential impact in a fight like this.

    The simple fact is that he had to fight with injury but without painkiller, which does create some doubt.

    And Floyd's IV was not allowed and there to mask doping. His excuse of rehydrating is a joke for someone who drained only a few pounds.

    You're so blinded by bias that you will never budge an inch here despite clearly being wrong, so, as said earlier, I will not waste time on you here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2023
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    It wasn’t a painkiller. It was an NSAID. NSAIDs are performance enhancers. Not only was Pacquiao already using Toradol with a TUE, his team was the reason for the denial because they screwed up the form.

    As for Mayweather’s TUE, a retroactive TUE exists for the purpose of clearing STAT treatment for acute conditions. Dehydration happens to be an acute condition. Mayweather was cleared.

    And if Mayweather somehow had USADA in his pocket, he wouldn’t have needed a TUE to begin with.

    These events have little to do with how the fight unfolded, assuming Floyd wouldn’t have otherwise fought dehydrated. They both were in normal from, considering Floyd’s age, and the outcome was because Mayweather outboxed Pac.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Call me a terribly cynic, but I think that Mayweather made the calculation that his style was much better suited to longevity than Pacquiao's.

    When he saw Pacquiao starting to take losses, he decided to chance his hand.

    That is not how you stake your case for being the GOAT.

    If Mayweather was past his prime as well, then that could also be seen as devaluing it.
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Stop with this nonsense.

    Floyd was not severely dehydrated to the point of needing an IV.

    Don’t be silly.

    He has never been severely dehydrated in his entire career. And he was only 3 pounds out at the 30 day weight check. In the last week, he was winding down. Nobody is buying that. And if he had’ve been dehydrated, he’d have taken on oral fluids first. You don’t just hook yourself up to an IV if you’re dehydrated. That’s ridiculous. And if it had been legit, he’d have followed the correct procedure by reporting it and having it administered in a medical facility. The fact that neither of those things happened speaks volumes.

    What Floyd and USADA did was a joke.

    USADA let Floyd put a clause in the contract, stating that he could have a retroactive TUE if he needed one. And USADA have a clause in their contracts, saying that any adverse findings or clearances, don’t have to reported straight away to the relevant commissions.

    The whole thing was outrageous.

    Ask yourself this question:

    How could the NSAC, who hosted the richest fight in the history of the sport, not have known about Floyd’s IV, until three weeks AFTER the fight??

    It’s laughable.

    Yes, he was cleared. Because the fallout of a proper investigation would have been absolutely catastrophic for Vegas and the rest of the boxing world.
     
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  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Call me a cynic, but I think Bob Arum knew that Mayweather would win from day one and protected him until he was ready to cash him out.

    Any sane person would know the same after seeing Mayweather toy with Marquez.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2023
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Facts over (your) feelings.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Okay.

    Well let’s put my feelings to one side where we solely just concentrate on all of the facts.


    Here are all of the FACTS:


    An IV of that magnitude is banned by WADA, as it’s a known masking agent to flush out a cycle of PEDS.

    An IV of that magnitude is banned by VADA, as it’s a known masking agent to flush out a cycle of PEDS.

    Any IV has to be reported to all relevant bodies.

    An IV has to be administered by a registered doctor in a medical facility.

    USADA gave Floyd a clause in his contract, stating that he could receive a retroactive TUE if needed.

    USADA has a clause in their contracts stating that they don’t have to report their clients findings to a commission.

    USADA did not report Floyd’s IV use to the NSAC when it was first discovered.

    Neither Floyd or any of his team members notified the NSAC of the administered IV.

    The IV was taken privately in Floyd’s Nevada home.

    The NSAC had absolutely no knowledge that the procedure had taken placement until 3 weeks after the fight had happened.

    Floyd has never had any weight issues in his career, and he was just 3.5 pounds out at the 30 day weight check.


    Facts not feelings.
     
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  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    You forgot the fact that Floyd played by the rules of the contract and was cleared.

    You also forgot that Floyd completed a career that was superior to Roberto Duran's without ever testing positive for PEDs, whereas Duran admitted to using steroids (aka being injected with the stuff thar makes horses stronger).
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That is not how the division is meant to resolve itself.

    The best are supposed to fight it out.

    If one or both of them won't, then both of their resumes, take a hit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    They fought as pfp 1 and 2 for the highest purse ever recorded in boxing until that point (not fact checking). Arum's gamble paid off.