Greater physical freak of nature: Manny Pacquiao or Mike Tyson?

Probably Tyson. To be that explosive, erratic, coordinated and fast as a 5'10 220 lb man is insane. Pacquiao was a freak of nature as well, his stamina, work-rate, speed and power for his size were monstrous, but he wasn't quite as uncanny as Tyson.

 

Before we even get into it, the fact that Mike was his size, with his agility and speed and power combination, it's not even close to me.

Diminishing returns and all that, whilst Pac is freakish, the likelihood of his taking enhancers, his natural size and weight means that it's more expected - when people of a Tyson size move as quick as he did, that's very special!

 

I think Tyson’s movement was indicative of his teaching not any inherit almost esoteric qualities.

 

If Joe Joyce was trained like Tyson from the womb, he would never replicate his power, speed and movement.

The balance, agility, footspeed, coordination and power is the result of the combination of his training and his natural gifts.

 

We won’t know

 

The best proof of Tyson's freakishness is how he compares to lighter but significantly less athletic Floyd Patterson. To move so quickly on the pivot for a man his size is nothing short of phenomenal.

Now having said that there is a very distinct element of skill involved when discussing Tyson's success. His moves were drilled into him from a young age by a disgruntled D'Amato who's had decades to perfect that particular style.

Obviously both are freaks possessing great skills. But Pacquiao by comparison did not show polish until he had hooked up with Roach at a much later stage.

By that logic I tend to side more with Pacquiao because he got by on physicality against a much stronger pool of opponents for far longer and on more occasions.

 

Really?

John McEnroe ...

 

That's not really pertinent information though is it? Joe Joyce is physically diametrically opposed to someone as gifted as Mike Tyson. No one will be able to successfully replicate Tyson or Pacquiao.

The point isn't that Mike relied more on skill than athleticism though I feel an argument could be made there it's that he had more training to fall back on.

 

Okay. Take Herbie Hide then, or whomever you want that's not overly tall with a good blend of speed and power - they still won't match his physical attributes.

The training will only get you so far. The natural physical qualities - neck size, fast twitch fibres, reflexes, strong legs, ability to throw explosively in combination combined with his backstory, psyche and his undoubted study of tape - Tyson was physically gifted to a level seldom seen at any weight division.

I agree with what you're saying - nobody will ever match Pac, Tyson, RJJ and many other physical marvels but I wholeheartedly believe that the smaller fighters are supposed to be physically gifted. Stamina, speed, movement, this is their bag - where you get much larger fighters than can fight with similar outputs, I must give greater weighting as it's harder to do at the size of a Tyson, Ali, Patterson, Louis etc. compared to a Sal Sanchez, Pac, Pep, SRR etc.

 

Well, Pac's prime encompassed many weight classes. Arguably from FLW to SWW. In any given one of them he might not have been as much a freak as Tyson was, but the way he preserved so much speed, power and stamina up to 154 is the most freakish thing in boxing history by a distance.

Btw, that Tyson had good stamina is a doubtful statement I think. It was alright, but nothing special. His 12 round fights were quite slow paced and in most of them he wasn't really challenged, rather had his opponent in survival mode for the majority of it.

Pac had phenomenal stamina at any weight really, so he has Tyson well beat there.

 

How do we factor in PEDs in this discussion? Tyson was likely on some s**t, and Pacquiao's higher weight climbs are almost surely the result of steroids.

 

Tyson was more natural than Pacquiao though when he was a young teen Tyson was already 190 pounds i doubt Tyson was on PEDs at that age. Pacquiao went from being a skinny kid who almost got knocked out by a jab to a Welterweight beating up guys twice the size of him.

Both had god given talents though that none of us could replicate even with the best trainers and PEDs you could get.

 

Yep, but it becomes a deal breaker when we put two super talented guys up in a competition though. I agree with you, Tyson looked more natty. I seriously couldn't believe Pacman's physique at 37 against Broner. The guy was growing in his mid 30s.

 

Tyson, I'd say Hagler was more of a naturally gifted physical specimen than Pac too