Greater physical freak of nature: Manny Pacquiao or Mike Tyson?

One didn't have access to proper nutrition for a while, the other was raised in a fight camp basically. Also, a lot of people begin using steroids at a young age, Tyson would have known what they were and how to obtain them probably pretty young due to his formative years. That being said, neither were natural at any point you saw them boxing, and probably Pacquiao for longer because he didn't have the funds for a minute. Tyson was a bigger freak. You still have to hit the baseball.

I've seen guys on a lot of grams that will never have a physique like Tyson, and you can dope up a thousand Lamont Petersons and you will never get the speed and explosion of a Pacman. So I think the PED rabbit hole is moot.

 

As I said, their talent is real but we are comparing the two of them to each other, not to an average fighter.

 

And I understand your line of thinking as well. But you said yourself in your third paragraph nobody matches them including Pacquiao. I simply disagreed with choosing vastly inferior specimens and propping them up as proof Mike had more physical advantages than Pacquiao. And while neck size is a valid addition psyche and study of tape are not and detract from your argument because Tyson had those advantages over Pacquaio but they're clearly not physical advantages.

 

Depending on the subjective criteria applied, it could tip it one way or the other - they’re close enough.

They both performed at any extremely elite level by way of their natural physical gifts.

Re Tyson’s early teen weight - 190 lb or so? Not to refute it but is there any perfectly reliable footage or reasonable still photos to uphold this weight?

I’ve clicked several clips that claimed Tyson to be only about 16 as at the time when, in fact, he was actually about 18 or 19.

 

Prime Roy Jones Jr. And Muhammad Ali says hello.....
But of those two I'll lean to Tyson.
Prime Tysons style and physicality was so unique and demanding it was almost a given he'd have a short Prime ( E.Steward predicted he would, he was right)
There's been many fighters from bantamwight through welterweight over the last 100 yrs of boxing that could've replicated Pac' s atheletiscim and accomplishments, with his era's day before weigh -ins, multiple titles per weight class, many more weight classes, modern " supplementations " weaker competition,
etc.
It's very doubtful in my mind at least Pac would've been near as successful if he was boxing during Henry Armstrongs era.
But Prime Tyson would've been a terror in all but one era.
Theirs been no one close to Tysons raw atheletiscim at heavyweight, with the exception of prime Ali.

 

There might be a next Pacquiao! There may be a next Tyson! Knock on wood, keeping fingers crossed.

Op said the keyword explosiveness: look at the size of Manny's calf's. My mother is from the islands so I can say this: Filipinos swell up huge when they lift weights AND they are generally short. That means not every pinoy is posted up in the paint or on the gridiron. With the upsurge if Manny Pacquiao, I'm pretty sure some youngsters from Phillipines took up boxing after that... Either starving to eat, or copying their idol. Heck look at how many PAC fans there are! Bundles!!!

We had a poor man's version of Tyson in Babich the savage bridgerweight but like someone already said who can apply Mike's style without gassing??? Pure phenom no father to his style unless you want to count one of cus's earlier fighters, the peak a boo style can puncture your own lungs, it takes that much cardio!!!

 

I think there are things you can’t get - you can only get so fast, so powerful but it’s a higher ceiling then most will believe I think. I believe what’s most important is how long and often Mike trained for, the rest is the least important part of his abilities.

 

Head movement where the boxer lowers his head to knee height (Tyson Vs. Tillis) I have not seen even in lower categories, let alone in heavyweight.
Mike Tyson

 

He fought at heavyweight in the 1981 junior Olympics at age 15

This content is protected

 

Indeed - but I don't think they detract from his physical attributes, in fact, I believe that they lend more weighting to his physical attributes.

If you take Tyson's attributes, explosiveness, neck size and agility, add in his psyche and study of tape and the mentality he's bringing into the ring, combined with the ring IQ and you have a physically gifted fighter who for a short time had almost everything. In the martial arts we refer to fighting instincts and aura - Mike Tyson's physical gifts were maximised by the additional non-physical factors, which yes, Pac didn't have the exposure to/of.

As for inferior physical specimens, I concede to this, but qualify and warrant that a larger man doing what Tyson does compared to a PAC, who IMO, should be more expected to do what he's done physically than Tyson should, is significantly more impressive. Regarding his stamina or perceived lack thereof (I know that this wasn't your claim) - any man that weighs above 215 lbs, with Mike's physical dimensions and his level of training and ability to change a fight in split seconds isn't going to throw the explosive combinations that he did, often against much larger fighters, and throw 100 punches a round for 12 rounds. Again, diminishing returns for larger mass here - that said, stamina is one of the areas where I think Mike could be outworked by the absolute very best in a H2H, but it doesn't make me think he was any less of a physical freak.

 

Crazy. Was it the same weight limit as for the senior Olympics?

 

Thanks Man. I see the weight threshold for the HW Class was 81 + kg which puts Mike at a weight of at least 178 1/2 lbs +.

His being an actual 185-195 lb might be a fair guess as at that time?

It’s probably difficult to obtain actual official weight data from that time. Extraordinary size and build for a 15 yo.

 

We are not examining who was the better fighter. The thread asked for the greater physical freak. We hence are not looking at everything only their physical attributes. Aura instinct and ring IQ need not be discussed. In the cases of both Manny and Mike we are talking about a degree of athleticism that is hitherto unmatched insofar as their individual level of achievement relative to their styles.

There is a place for size and diminishing returns in the argument as I pointed out in my very first post partially in support of Tyson. However we must not reduce it to simply that or else we cannot say for example that Roy was a better physical specimen compared to Floyd or that Ali was better in that regard compared to Sanchez.

As I said Tyson came out of the amateur machine close to being a finished product. He had a style that blended offense and defense which heavily contributed to his success. The closest analogue to Tyson was Floyd Patterson who himself won the championship in his day on two separate occasions. In contrast Manny won multiple world championships mainly by overwhelming physicality early in his career. I personally can't think of a fighter who's done or could do what Pac did to Barrera and Morales in the manner he did it.

 

I haven't mentioned better fighter as Pac rates higher in my p4p.

I'm saying that those non-physical attributes allowed Tyson to maximise his physical attributes in a way seldom seen. Two things can be true at the same time and here, my noting of mentality and upbringing lend themselves to how well Tyson maximised his physical gifts or how well his team was able to tap into his psyche to maximise his physical gifts through repetitious training.

Hopefully, this clarifies what I'm trying to say - I think RJJ and Tyson, builds apart, are extremely similar in terms of fast twitch and ability to change a fight with one punch but post visiting G-Man, Roy's psyche was to avoid trouble and not do too much damage to his opponent, kinda similar to what happened with Eubank. You can see the lack of killer instinct and doing just enough as opposed to just knocking out lesser fighters. Now, Tyson his payche wouldn't allow him to revert to not trying to knock his man out as early and brutally as possible, sometimes to his own detriment.

If physical talents are expressed by what they do in the ring, then surely their psyche and schooling affects how they express themselves.

I know what you're saying but I also know what I mean.

 

I couldn't find anything showing his weigh in for it, but yeah 81-91kg (200.6lbs)

I think it's probably safe to assume, with his being 5'10 and that muscular of a build, he was closer to the 91kg end