Ode to Floyd Patterson

I did a Patterson vs Briggs thread some time ago and a poster mentioned that Patterson gets disrespected often around here.

Patterson, among 175-200 pounds was one of the best there was. A prime Floyd Patterson has a good chance of beating any fighter that size up to and including Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Michael Spinks and even cruiserweight Holyfield. Whether you favor Patterson to win or not against the above named doesn't change the fact that Patterson would be a live wire in those fights.

The reason that Patterson typically gets doubted when he gets put against 200+ pound men who can punch is how he was devastated against Sonny Liston and totally beat up against Muhammad Ali who had quite a size advantage. Granted, Liston and Ali were both ATG's. I wish Patterson could have fought guys like Nino Valdez or Cleveland Williams. They were big men who could punch and were more the size of modern day heavyweights but were not ATGs. Depending on how he did against them might have told us about how he does against guys like Briggs or Mercer. Big men who could really punch but not ATGs

 

I concur with everything you said.

 

The problem is that many believe he was purposely kept away from the men you propose he should have fought. And this only adds to the perception that he could not safely or effectively compete with fighters of that description. Is this an undeniable truth ? No. But the fact that it didn’t happen doesn’t help his case. I’ve always liked Floyd Patterson as a fighter. He won the Olympic gold. Won the title young. Fought a lot of good fights and remained competitive into old age. But his reign as champion was very poor. He won the title in vacant fashion from an aged contender ( albeit the great Archie Moore ) whom his predecessor had convincingly beaten. He then proceeded to defend that title only a few times over the next several years against mostly weak opposition, even losing it once along the way to a relatively unknown contender before finally having it taken away for good in one of the most brutal losses by a champion in history. And to my knowledge Patterson is the only heavyweight champion to ever give a title shot to a debuting opponent. The above doesn’t bode well for favoring him over Shannon Briggs or Andrew Golata or Michael Grant or Jameel McCline as much as I hate to make him an underdog in those fights. Floyd Patterson was a great “ fighter “ but he was a manufactured and protected “ champion “

 

Floyd seemed liberated after the defeats to Liston and Clay. He didn't have the overly protective Cus managing him anymore. He didn't have a title to protect. He fought all the best guys and did well against them -- Chuvalo, Machen, Cooper, Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena, just about everyone except Frazier.

 

Unfortunately D'Amato's shenaningangs have damaged Patterson's legacy.

It is very difficult to be considered an ATG when you spent literally your whole reign as world champion just running away in your bicycle ... and when you finally get free you get blown to bits by the first serious challenger who crosses your path.

 

Floyd has virtually no chance against Dempsey.

 

And the man threw the final punch … and it landed pretty solidly … in his second fight with Ali. Which he had zero chance of winning BTW but he stood right up to Ali that night and could hold his head high afterward.

 

Fair assessment ... but was D'Amato trying to keep Patterson away from people who could beat him, a la Mickey Goldmill, or was he using Patterson as a pawn in a quixotic one-man war against the scum that ran boxing at that point in time, and Patterson's nature was too placid and trusting to see how it was going to affect his legacy?

Cus was an odd duck ...

 

Maybe you're right if Dempsey is allowed to stand over Floyd and punch him as soon as he rises from the canvas. But if modern rules prevail
Floyd has a chance. Dempsey was at his peak from1918 to 1921. When was peak Patterson? I haven't decided.

 

I don't think Patterson is underrated at HW, but feel he is p4p.

He came along at the wrong time.

10-15 years earlier and he wouldn't have been as undersized against the best HWs of the era, as he was vs Liston and Ali.

10-15 years later and he likely would have spent the bulk of his career as a LHW, where he would surely rate as an ATG today.

 

And I think he was robbed vs Quarry and Ellis

 

Well, he was smaller than Liston and Ali, but he really wasn't smaller than the average contender of the 50s and 60s.

 

Also, if he turned pro 10-15 years earlier than he did, that means that he turns pro 1937-1942. That puts him on a collision course with Joe Louis. Unless he stayed fighting at light heavyweight. But that means that he likely never becomes a heavyweight champion at all as I don't see him getting past Joe Louis. But he would have been one of the top heavies of the era.

And with so many light heavies like Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins venturing North to heavyweight, I think that Patterson would have made the move as well. Especially if he became light heavyweight champion

 

All three fights were close. I watched the Ellis fight again last week and Cosell's running commentary is heavily slanted in Patterson's favor. I thought Ellis won at least a couple of those rounds that Cosell scored for Floyd. I am a Patterson fan and I think he shaded Ellis for the win but I don't agree that he was robbed. Referee Harold Valan, who cast the sole vote, took heat for the decision but Cosell might have been responsible for some of that fan reaction.

 

IMO. Patterson is not underestimated because Liston beat him. Patterson is not underestimated because of what a fighter he is in H2H terms (among 175-200 pounds). Patterson is underrated because he avoided Liston for as long as he could.

Excuse me - google translate
I hope you understood what I want to say.