Why doesn’t Buster Douglas get a pass for the Holyfield loss?

Because the great fighters are the ones that get chastised or excused for not training hard. Douglas was a non great that had a great night, and people know this, so they don't feel too strongly about the Holyfield loss.

 

I think it is because he was kind of erratic during his career- losses to Jesse Ferguson and Mike White, for example. He didn't have the body of work of a Duran or even what Tyson had done prior to their fight.
And I'm sure you remember reading about how, leading up to the Holyfield fight, he would go in the sauna to lose weight. And eat a pizza.

 

Because Douglas fits the "Flash in the pan" narrative like a glove to the hand, for bad or good.
His performance in Tokyo is considered like an absolute outlier. The one single night when he peaked and that's it.

After Tokyo, he regressed to his regular mediocre self. Thus, being defeated by Holyfield is seems not like a shocking event.

 

Some of it is definitely because of the somewhat misconceived image that people have of him being a one hit wonder. That he was simply 'reverting to type'. Like grey said, he didn't have a great body of work to fall back on. It's unfair in a certain sense but is what it is.

I have quite a soft spot for Buster because I think, unlike many it seems, that he was a very gifted and natural fighter. A rare combination of size and technique but one who didn't in his heart of hearts want to be a professional boxer. So I do sort of give him a pass while feeling melancholy that we never got see what he was imo capable of beyond treating an atg like an old speedball for ten rounds.

 

Even though he was heavier than in Tokyo, I thought he didn’t actually fight that bad against Holyfield who just won the first couple round cos he was just the busier fighter. What made people think that Douglas didn’t made any effort was the end where after getting caught an dropped by a good right hand, he looked like he could have easily got up, even checking if there was any damage to his face with his glove but chose not too.

He just gave up so I think that’s why he doesn’t get a free pass for that fight but then that really no different from what Liston did against Ali in their second fight an Liston somehow gets a free pass for that

 

It depends what you mean by "get a pass" and specifically whether you're talking about a ranking based on career achievements/greatness or an assessment of how good these fighters were at their peak.

Greatness = Tyson shouldn't get a pass for Douglas, nor Duran for SRL 2. In my experience most people factor those loses into their rankings/appraisals of the respective careers. The same is true of Douglas vs Holyfield.

Peak H2H = most people consider there to be better versions of Tyson than Tokyo and better versions of Duran than SRL 2. The same is true of Douglas vs Holyfield.

 

Let me say first, it is my goal (or should I say my yen?) to have sex one future day in Tokyo in order to cover that city with a drawing pin on my world map of romantic conquests.

My world map is littered with such markers but alas, I’ve yet to visit Japan.

As to Buster Douglas. Having recently reviewed several of his fights, I’ve noticed Douglas could be a bit loose and ill judged with the uppercut - not in Tokyo but in other fights before and after - but he never paid the ultimate price for same.

Certainly, upon some of those misses, he did appear quite open to counter - as he was vs Evander.

I don’t know if Evander took the opportunity as and when to counter Buster or if he duly researched this flaw in Douglas’ game and was therefore well drilled for the opportunity when it arrived.

As to a pass on the Holyfield fight - I dunno what the general judgment is on that fight.

I’d just say that we saw the polar extreme versions of Buster in back to back fights no less We saw the very good (great?) and then the vey ugly. No in-betweens.

His loss to Evander appeared to be an acute, sling shot reversion back to the less than ideally prepared, focused and committed version of Douglas. He went from Cinderfella back to a pumpkin in quick time.

At the time, given the same version that presented in Tokyo, I did believe that Douglas would beat Holyfield.

But ALL credit to Holyfield who always came in prepared.

And, as I recall, there were no butts about it - possibly due to the brevity of the fight and insufficient time for Evander’s head to get its groove on and really start “smokin’ ’”.

 

Its really quite simple. Douglas had a **** all attitude when he became heavyweight champion. He let himself stay down after Holyfield sparked him when he could've gotten back up. He had the image of someone who powered through self-doubt to achieve his dream, yet gave up the moment he got knocked down in his first and only ever title defense. He also came into the ring fat.

 

Agreed.

Aside from talent, the mental game is SO important - and the required psyche isn’t a given nor should it be taken for granted.

More often than not, the psyche is lacking - therefore, when it isn’t lacking, it should be considered as a bonus, a more rare attribute that should be highly commended.

That’s why, at least imo, the “only if” laments re other fighters and their mental game (or lack thereof) is far too glib when theorised upon.

The mental game is a well honed, years in the making attribute like anything else - development of same often beginning well before a boxing glove is even picked up.

In fact, it speaks for the whole person - which can be a far more substantial “attribute” than a great left hook, right hand or what have you.

So, the way I look at it, it shouldn’t really be an “if only” lament, it should actually be viewed as said fighter simply not possessing that very important component of character - not having the all important component of the overall “right stuff” to be a fully maintained great fighter

 

He does get a pass for that fight. That's why Holyfield doesn't get any credit for that fight. Fat ass Buster, and all that.

 

Holy is my 4th favorite fighter ever but based on the first Bowe fight, I have a feeling Tokyo Douglas would’ve decisioned him. Douglas imo had an even better jab, and much better defense, if not quite the same power.

 

Buster is/was a rise to the occasion heavyweight. There were lots of them in the 80's. What they cannot do is sustain it. but for that one night they look terrific. Its just that most boxing fans think these guys are turning into greats because of a single great result on one night.