Why doesn’t Buster Douglas get a pass for the Holyfield loss?

I'm not docking Douglas any points I'm just stating a fact, Douglas dominated Tyson outside of a bolt of the blue knockdown.

Tyson fought Ruddock in a war and exchanged punches with a huge puncher for all 12 rounds, why does it make a difference if Tyson never won a fight after being knocked down ? Tyson showed heart and grit to win a war vs Ruddock.

But I'm not comparing Douglas and Tyson my point was people are saying because Douglas got up from a knocked vs Tyson, that means he showed enough "heart" to win vs Holyfield and I disagree.

Getting up from a knockdown in a fight you dominated is way different than surviving a grueling battle vs Holyfield where Douglas would be pushed in every round.

 

Do you think Douglas ranks as a top 15 heavyweight of all-time then? Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe.

 

They were bigger than him and he was reaching his mid 30`s, would like to see Laing do what During did for 15 rounds v Hagler, are you really comparing Duran`s career during the 80`s to Buster`s career during the 90`s?

 

He never rematched with Tyson even though he continued to fight for 4 years after Tyson was released, he knew that his win over Tyson was pure chance and not based on any sort of realistically replicable skill

 

But I did address your post exactly.

Tokyo Douglas was far better conditioned and focused than Tucker Douglas - the latter Douglas was winning or at least even when he gassed and virtually stopped fighting against TNT.

Buster’s gassing was an inherent deficiency, having a lot less to do with what Tucker was putting to him. - suffice to say, Buster’s Dad was mortified by his son’s apparent “surrender”.

That was just one of Buster’s prior fights that gave Col. Bob Sheridan (RIP) cause to prophetically muse “Which Buster will we see tonight?”

There was no prior evidence either that Douglas would survive a KD like the one he did actually survive against Tyson in Tokyo.

I referenced round 9, Mike tried to come roaring back after the KD and he did hurt/wobble Buster on at least two occasions - but Douglas would not be denied, fought back hard and seized back total control.

This was excellent evidence of a very different Douglas in there against Tyson - in both physical and mental terms.

Buster’s arising, fighting back in the next round (9) and taking back control was a revelation that past evidence “also” didn’t indicate that Buster was necessarily capable of.

The Holyfield fight also provides as an “after the fact” example to support the one fight prior, singular quality of Tokyo Buster. His reactions to the KDs and efforts (incl. lack thereof) to arise were markedly different.

Evander could well ask more questions of Tokyo Buster, as I agreed with - and Evander’s questions could be beyond some of the very best of them, including Tokyo Buster in all possibility - but my crux point is that it wouldn’t be the inferior pre and post Tokyo versions of Buster that would be answering those questions.

“Tokyo Douglas” sounds like a DC or Marvel Comic Super Hero - , I’m def. not trying to pass him off as that - - but he was as great as any fighter could be perceived or measured, based on limited, one fight evidence.

Certainly Evander would make it more competitive than Mike but when they did actually fight, Buster’s “kryptonite” = food, had already taken a heavy toll.

No more up up and away for Buster, just down down and then glued to the canvas - he was basically grounded, like Howard Hughes’ oversized Spruce Goose.

Is there a pun in those last few sentences? - yes, I think there may be.

 

Unless you have proven yourself a great fighter, it's unlikely anyone will defend you for your worst moments.

 

As a 1st time poster on this forum I would just like to point out that IMO, BD had a lot of tools to be a really good fighter but again, IMO lacked the passion. I don't believe he was real excited about boxing. I think where the passion came from in Tokyo was that he dedicated the fight to his recently deceased mother. I think that was probably the one time where his tools and passion came together for him with matchless determination b/c again, in his mind he was fighting for his mother. Once, he accomplished that feat, I truly believe he didn't care anymore about boxing, was happy he did what he set out to do in her memory, got a huge payday and rode off into the sunset. Again, that's just my opinion.

 

We are getting into whataboutism territory and this is a thread about Douglas.

In any case, regarding Duran, sure there are fans who excuse and justify every blunder and mistake he did in and out the ring. But I think most ppl in the forum has a balanced view of Duran.
Duran was a true ATG, but he was also erratic, inconsistent, took nights off and his lack of focus and discipline negatively affected his career. He certainly is not getting a free pass over here. But regardless his shortcomings Duran managed to accomplish many impressive feats during his boxing career. Heavens only knows what more he could have accomplished with more discipline.

On the other side you have Buster Douglas, a one hit wonder who peaked in one single fight and afterwards nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch...

 

Welcome to the board!
And probably you are right the tragedy of his mother's passing a few weeks before the fight was what put the fire in Douglas' Belly.

With Tyson defeated the fire was gone, thus Douglas did the rational thing (in his case) he cashed as much money as he could with minimum effort and went fishing (literally).

There is also an additional factor to consider on Douglas leaving: the pathetic mess risen by Don King and Tyson trying to strip Douglas of the belt because the knock down count or some other BS. I wouldn't be surprised if that factored on Douglas' decision to quit the game. Who in his sane mind would want to stay in a bussiness where you will be dealing with pieces of garbage like Don King?

 

Nice 1st post, welcome to the forum.

 

Buster Douglas was always good but never fully lived up to his potential aside from Tokyo. His mind wasn't really there for the Holyfield fight due to various reasons, that being said a fighter's mentality is one of the biggest factors that differentiate between being a great fighter and an ATG.

 

I’ve never been so confident in my selection of the winner of any other supposed “pick ‘em” fight as I was when picking Holyfield to beat Douglas (apart from, maybe McClellan-Jackson). As soon as the fight was signed I felt/knew that Evander wasn’t leaving that ring without those belts whenever they fought always feeling this version of Holy would be way too busy from the outset, and still be forcing a great pace in the 2nd half of the fight. The only surprise was that it ended so early.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Tyson in the Douglas fight looked like he always looked, he just encountered someone who , pulled himself together, wasn't scared and fought back. Duran? no fighter ever received as much grief as Roberto Duran did for quitting. He couldn't go out in public in Panama. That's not receiving a pass. And unlike Duran who came back and won 2 more world titles Buster sailed off into the night and vanished. I was going to bet on Buster to beat Holy that night until he weighed in and I knew he was going back to his roots of being a 2nd tier heavyweight.