Wlad Klitschko Versus Joe Frazier

Do you really believe this adequately describes the skill level of Joe Frazier?

Which opponents did Wlad face of better pedigree than Frazier?

Could you please point me to examples (plural) of this "punch variety" (outside of his jab, right-cross and left-hook)?

Could you also include examples (plural) of his inside fighting, body-punching, combination punching?

Again - When was this lightning speed on show - which fights? Was it Ali-type speed? How often did he demonstrate this speed?

 

Wlad overwhelms Joe with his power. Sorry, Wlad goes for the kill early in this one and succeeds. Too strong, too much pop, too disciplined.

 

Yeah rope a dope and laying on the ropes was alien to Ali wasn't it?
Of course Dundee never berated Ali for doing so did he?
Ali never beckoned Frazier to come to him when his back was against the ropes did he?

 

He’ll certainly jab and move but he was usually reluctant to throw power punches early on in the fight.

This paragraph was in response to Frazier taking plenty of punishment against the best fighters. The only fighters who consistently tagged Joe were Ali and foreman, both of whom punched at higher volume than wlad.

don’t change the goalposts. First you say Frazier barely faced any punchers, now it’s he didn’t face anyone on wladimir’s level. Of this list, only foreman punched harder than wladimir, that doesn’t the others weren’t power punchers. George chuvalo had a stoppage to win rate of 87%. With 50% of those 64 stoppages coming by KO. Oscar Bonavena had a stoppage rate of 75% with 54% of those stoppages coming by KO.

 

No that doesn't demonstrate Frazier's skill level, that's kind of my point. That estimation of Frazier is just as reductive as everyone's estimation of Wlad.

And I'll do all that when I get my computer, or honestly I might not. Getting kind of bored replying to multiple seperate low quality arguments. Not particularly keen to put in the effort to write out what is essentially a small video essay with annotated examples just to refute the rather low effort "Frazier dodges all punches, or dodges no punches idgaf he rises up and knocks out Wlad in 5".

 

Like who for example?

 

If you followed the thread you'd have already seen the full fight I linked to against exactly one such guy, who managed to land a total of 10 punches on Wlad in the entire fight.

 

... against WHO?

 

Your first reply includes this:

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So, the commonly seen 'too big too strong' argument, which is valid, to be expected, albeit a tad trite, combined with some "ATG" this and that opinion. Not all that compelling.


You include in the same reply:

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This is an inaccurate characterization of Frazier/Foreman and so, not a sound argument.



Then your next post includes this:

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This is not an argument. It's just an opinion and one that is dubious, at that. Hence the questions.



In your next reply you state:

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This is a misleading equivalence. Not only did Frazier throw his average over 15 rounds but his 42/round were almost exclusively power shots. Conversely, Wlad's average/round consisted of jabs in the considerable majority (74%). His average power shots per round barely broke into double figures with him never throwing more than 20 power shots in any one of them.

Moreover, Wlad wasn't facing anything like the return fire from Haye, as Frazier was from Ali. Which stands to reason, since there was a significant gap between the quality levels of the respective bouts.

Making out Wlad's workrate would be fine, based on the comparison you have made, is not a sound argument.



I would suggest that, if you're going to complain about the pro-Frazier opinions and arguments of other posters', you might want to construct some useful ones of your own. Reliance on a case built on a size differential is pretty weak.

Again, hence my questions to you, which you might or might not bother to answer.

 

Good point. Calzaghe would have cleaned Frazier up because his workrate and skills were off the charts. Frazier would have been doomed.

 

Yes, at some point size matters, especially for a man with Fraziers style. I would give Jimmy Young a better chance for some succes vs Wlad. Wlad is to big, to strong, to fast, to accurate and posses maybe the hardest one punch ever.

 

With fury’s recent performances that’s up for debate. As for AJ, his best wins are beating wlad when he was 41 years old and coming off a hiatus. His second best is beating Alexander when he was 39. You could argue he was better than David haye.

If you trust compubox punch stats, then the vast majority of the punches Wlad threw were jabs. He hardly threw more than 10 power shots per round. In contrast, pretty much all of Frazier’s shots were power shots. That was while he was constantly bobbing and weaving, and chasing Ali down. Wlad used to throw more power punches, but ever since losing to lemon Brewster he kept it safe.

no, that would 6’2 lamon Brewster, who probably lied about his height considering he looked shorter than don king.

Do you think ross puritty punched harder than George Foreman?

I never claimed Frazier wasn’t a one dimensional fighter. His style just happened to be a nightmare for boxer types like wladimir.

considering wladimir threw an average of 13 power shots against Alexander povetkin, he’s a lot more of a boxer than puncher.

Nice. It’s a shame he didn’t actually do that a lot.

Considering Muhammad Ali had trouble even landing it, I doubt it.

Not before he body shots wlad to death.

 

alex leapai? Than I Guess Frazier will beat wlad’s ass, since he beat Joe bugner, who had a longer reach than wlad. (Or at least that’s your reasoning)

 

Well, as great as Joe was, I sure would like to see a 5'10½'' /204 pound man body punching a 6'6'' 245 pound man to death, sir...

 

I’d be happy to give you a list but first, who did Sam Peter, lamon Brewster, and ross puritty fight besides wlad?