Larry Holmes Versus Vitali Klitschko

there were rumors going into the fight that his shoulder was bad. And you can see it if you had watched his previous bouts. The other big thing was the Klitschko camp even accepting the Byrdman as an opponent. What other management accepts the style of Byrd as a substitute for an old version of Ruddock who pulled out with a groin infection?

 

That's a good question and in actual fact Chris Byrd was quite a step up in competition for Vitali at that point in his career. Vitali's only real stand out win at that point was vs Herbie Hide.

I guess they thought the size difference would be too much, and seeing Byrd just a year before getting the snot knocked out of him by Ibeabuchi. They probably thought Vitali would catch him eventually but they thought wrong.

 

At this point in time, Byrd had fought one Ring-Rated opponent (Ibeabuchi) and had been flattened in the process. He was not being taken seriously as a heavyweight and hardly viewed as a threat.

As for the rumors about Vitali having carried the injury into the fight, Merchant asked Vitali about this, in the post-fight interview, and Vitali confirmed that the injury occurred during the fight.

 

Holmes beats him soundly.

 

I was watching some Vitali the other day and i still can't see him beating Holmes.

 

Who did Holmes fight in his era besides a sickly old Ali and a young Tyson who destroyed him? Norton was shot and gave him hell and got KO'd in the 1st round in 2 of his next 4 fights and was dropped 2x in his draw with Scott Ledoux. Cooney (who never fought past 8 rds. and fought 2x (2 first rd. KO's) in 2 years prior to Holmes was his best win.

Holmes also never unified -Dokes -Tate -Thomas -Coetzee (rejuvenated Weaver) gave up a title not to fight Page and eventually lost to Spinks in Michaels first fight at heavyweight and then Holmes trashed by Tyson.

I am saying not saying Holmes was not a top heavyweight but let's look at his strengths and his weaknesses, there are a lot of avoidances in his career, maybe not ALL his fault but there was a lot of navigation by his team.

Holmes had a great jab, moved well, had heart but also fought a lot of handpicked 10 -14 -15-16 fight guys.

Holmes may have excelled had he fought the best of his era, but we will never know.

I am not calling Vitali the top heavyweight ever but there is a solid argument to be made that he was better than any of Holmes opponents at the time that Holmes fought them and could possibly have the right tools to do it.

 

Holmes by decision.

Probably the best heavyweight jab in history, a bigger collector than Lewis, great mobility and, above all, a right hand that inflicts enormous damage.

 

And who did Vitali fight ? what's his best win ? Holmes beat 3 times as many ranked opposition than Vitali did.

Vitali also never fought a bunch of top Heavyweights again what's his best win ?

And you're comparing Holmes to Vitali who has one of the weakest resumes of any known top Heavyweight, and who's resume is by far worse than Holmes's so i don't really understand what your point is ? you're criticising Holmes and yet don't have the same energy to criticise Vitali who has a far worse resume ? that doesn't make logical sense be consistent.

A 13-0 Tim Witherspoon on a H2H basis is better than pretty much any Heavyweight Vitali beat. Who on Vitali's best win ledger would you favour over Witherspoon..... Peter ? Adamek ? fat semi retired golfer Sanders ? Chisora ?

And a prime Holmes is also atleast 2 levels above anyone Vitali beat so what's your point ? neither has a great resume but Holmes certainly has many more wins against world class opposition than Vitali has that we do know.

 

I pick Holmes. His mobility and durability along with that smooth Jab help him out point Vitali who’s feet are on the slower side. If Vitali punched harder like his brother I may pick him but I see Holmes taking about 8 rounds in a 12 rounder.

 

VK lost vs the two best fighters he faced . Fact

He quit vs a feather fisted Creampuff.

He got his face ripped off by a one foot out the door no more fully committed Champ and failed passing the torch test.

VK was prime for both fights.

No objective Boxing fan could see Prime Holmes quitting vs Byrd or getting stopped by a fat washed up Lewis

Over 15 Holmes boxes the arm puncher VK silly.

 

Tim Witherspoon fought on par with most of the terrible opponents of that era and he lost to Pinklon Thomas (who Holmes wouldn't fight) a year after the controversial fight with Holmes.

I think that batch of 80's heavyweight were the worst ever. So please don't tell me Tim Witherspoon was great or couldn't lose to any of Vitalis opponents including Chisora who was ordinary.

Vitali dominated Byrd up until the shoulder injury and fought even vs Lewis but improved with confidence and showed it in his 2nd rd. KO over Kirk Johnson.

The 80's were overrated and a good barometer was Mike Tyson who disposed of guys like Carl Williams KO1, Trevor Berbick KO 2, Tony Tubbs KO2 Mike Spinks KO1 Larry Holmes KO 4

As far as style Vitali had the style that had a great chance to beat Holmes IMO and we can disagree.

 

You want to make a big deal about Vitali being handicapped but when its comes to Byrds handicap you flat out ignore it and that shows bias.
Betting men don't allow bias influence their judgment and thats why you would lose all your money betting on Vitali.

If Vitali was called on a weeks notice and didn't have time to train to a gameplan nor had any access to his opponent on tape , you'd be endlessly using that as an excuse to give him a pass if he lost.

Well that was Byrds situation. No camp , no gameplan and had no access to Vitali on film. So what you have here is two men who were hampered , one lost , the other prevailed.

Vitali could have set the record straight in the rematch but he dodged it and let his brother stand in for him. That proves there was a lot more to the loss than a sore shoulder.
Any man who failed two chances to beat Chris Byrd isn't beating Larry Holmes

 

Witherspoon lost to a Pinklon Thomas who went undefeated for 7 years i don't really see that as a negative, a prime Thomas is better than anyone Vitali beat aswell so it's a moot point.

I disagree i think 80s Heavyweights were very talented the problem was they were inconsistent with personal demons.

I never said Tim Witherspoon was great ? i said he's better than anyone Vitali beat which is true is it not ? basing it on H2H basis how good Witherspoon looked vs Holmes and based on what Witherspoon achieved in his career.

And no i don't think Witherspoon version of Holmes loses to the likes of Chisora.

Wrong Vitali did not dominate Byrd that's a huge myth just like the myth that Nunn dominated Toney another false statement that gets branded around alot.

Byrd landed over 40 percent of his punches compared to only 26 percent for Vitali, plus only 8 overall punches landed separated them does that sound like domination ?

The fight was in Germany which was Vitali's backyard so of course he would get favourable judging, the fact is though Byrd only had a weeks notice and was coming on the 2nd half of the fight and just had his best round of the fight when Vitali quit.

It's also worth noting Vitali didn't claim it was an old injury he said it happened during the fight, and since Byrd caused a shoulder injury to Holyfield aswell. I think a reasonable assumption could be Byrd's elusive style caused the more robotic Vitali to punch at weird angles causing the injury hence Byrd deserves full credit.

As for Kirk Johnson ? please you're not actually trying to hype up that win are you ? after Johnson got KO'ed Larry Merchant famously said "that whale just got harpooned. Johnson was in terrible shape and in was not in a fit state to fight at 260 pounds.

I can't believe you're hyping up that win yet discredit Holmes's win over Witherspoon you can't make it up.

Stop looking at this debate one way discrediting Holmes and look it both ways, you're discrediting Holmes's resume yet Vitali had a much worse one and unlike Holmes Vitali lost twice in his prime.

 

I agree that Vitali's loss to Byrd was fair and square (and even the severity of Vitali's alleged "injury" is extremely dubious) and he ducked a rematch because of this but I don't see short notice as a disadvantage for Byrd per se. Historically, big upsets frequently happen on short notice: Puritty, Byrd, Sanders, Ruiz. Just as Byrd couldn't prepare for Vitali, Vitali didn't have much time to prepare for Byrd, who was nothing like Ruddock. This either makes the contest more random, or a matter of who adapts better with limited information. Unless Vitali knew that Byrd was the replacement well in advance of Byrd being given the call, or if Byrd was out of shape when he got the call.

 

I think Vitali never wanted to face Toney because he had trouble with Byrd. It is a fight he avoided. A win over Toney would have added to his resume though