Jersey Joe v the Greatest

Louis was no longer the Brown Bomber,he himself said his last great fight was against Mauriello, and Walcott did not win either of the Louis fights.
Louis was no longer a great fighter after the war.

Marciano ko'd him in their 1st fight and Walcott elected to stay down in their 2nd.

Walcott went 50/50 with Charles, and Charles was never a great heavyweight imo. So no ,he did not excel against any great heavyweights,you don't excel if you lose.

 

Which ATGs did Norton excel against? How about Frazier?
Walcott is someone who tore through most heavyweight contenders once he hit his stride and proved to be a match for 3 champions. We know he had a terrific chin and enough stamina to jerk side to side and skip around the ring for 15 rounds.
We know his skills matched Louis and Charles, two of the most skilled technicians of the division's history.
It's not fantastical to say Walcott stays in the fight for the whole duration and makes Ali work for the win.

 

How is going 50/50 "tearing through" "most" heavyweight contenders? And staying with a faded Louis and a guy who was at his best at 175 is not the same as staying with a guy who is 6'3" 215 pounds, with a longer reach and better durability than the best Louis and Charles (which Walcott never fought) and just happened to be faster of both foot and hand. Yeah, sorry, still not buying it. I love Walcott but the guy is getting ridiculously overrated here.

Walcott didnt tear through any of those contenders. In fact, most of those fights he won over contenders were RAZOR thin decisions that could have gone either way and again, that the 50% he actually managed to squeek by.

 

Hooks and hookercuts are hard to time when you are pulling back, so I could see Walcott having some success with this punch.

 

Neither Norton or Frazier are the subject here,but since you asked.Norton beat Ali.Frazier beat Ali.Walcott did not have, "a terrific chin."

 

Sums this question up perfectly.

 

The All Time Greatest.

 

Seamus, you're a perspicacious poster. At what point in Ali's career would he no longer be a favorite against Jersey Joe?

 

Perhaps the Holmes fighter given the thyroid medication but not the Berbick fight.

 

Exactly. You asked which ATGs Walcott beat to prove he'd be competitive with Ali when neither Norton nor Frazier had beaten any ATGs and yet they were very competitive with Ali.
Frazier is often ranked over Walcott for good reason but Norton?
I don't see how Walcott's immense skill and footwork isn't going to make this a good fight.
And yes, Jersey Joe's chin was terrific. He'd be knocked out in the first round of the first Louis fight if it was not.

 

I agree.

 

I thought that you might’ve seen something technical rather than just making a general statement so I thought I’d ask… - I could virtually say the same thing about Walcott, both guys were very negative.

Correct me if I’m mistaken here but I don’t think I said he’s never faced a counter puncher? if I am mistaken let me rephrase because as a matter of fact every fighter is technically a “counter puncher” lol.

I don’t believe Muhammad Ali has demonstrated the potential to stalk Walcott down in any fight - do you personally? I don’t think that’s strange or weird to suggest, to me it’s important as he’d have to at least in my impression of the bout - so I ask why would Jersey Joe abandon post after all the rounds he got with Joe Louis? The question is really what could Ali do to force him to K? How exactly does he fight Walcott?

Ali can be marginally taller, a bit longer and heavier some but he just didn’t have the offensive capability of a Brown Bomber - we have seen this whenever he had to lead the dance, lead he would try because I don’t think Ali can make Walcott change his course, I think he demonstrated too high a wit for Ali to get into a boxing match with and if he tried to impose himself he’d be rocked.

Calling Louis a “stalking slugger” makes everyone at HW a bit of a boxing troglodyte then. Louis would smoke “Prime” Ali IMO but let’s not get into all that.

 

Walcott was floored by 159lbs ToxieAllen who had just 4 kos in 48fights
.Floored by Sheppard.
Floored by Charles.
Kod Simon.
Kod by Fox.
Kod by Louis.
Kod by Marciano x2.
Where do you get the idea he had a terrific chin from?
Walcott was totally out boxed and out fought by Layne who was no Willie Pep?

 

From the Louis and Marciano fights. It took a lot of punishment to put Walcott away.
Look at that massive right hand Walcott gets hit with at 2:17 (if you listen closely you can hear the thump of the impact).

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Jersey Joe takes that like a champ and only staggers momentarily. But it's not just his chin that is terrific, it's his defense. Those two combined make him extremely difficult to take out.
From 1944 to 1952 when he retired, Walcott was only knocked out by Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, 2 of those knockouts coming when he was on the verge of retirement and he fought punchers like Ray, Murray, Baksi and Layne in the meantime.
It's very hard to see Ali taking out Walcott at any point during the fight.

 

Well just talking about Rex Layne that’s not so bad IMO he was an honest pro. I’m just going off memory, forgive me. He beat Ezzard too right? Fought plenty a good fighter. Sometimes they’re just the right man for the job - I think similarly of this bout being discussed.

I mean was the revered Foreman less then the people Jimmy Young lost to or was he just in with the wrong guy? I don’t think losing to Rex Layne disqualifies you from beating Ali in the same way that beating Ali doesn’t mean you could beat Foreman.

Plenty of greats lost to some fellas you wouldn’t expect too, you of course know this it’s a staple in classic to defend the 118-13-24 records. it’s not such a blotch on your resume, it’s just my 0.2$ anyways.