Larry Holmes the H2H goat?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by AdamT, Jan 12, 2024.


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  1. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I know many will have Ali and Lewis as their h2h goat.

    Personally I think Larry gets a little under appreciated/underrated by some. Perhaps part of it is being sandwiched between the 2 biggest names in the history of the sport

    Larry had excellent fundamentals. It sometimes looks basic, but his jab, his movement,timing. His arsenal of punches. Did I mention the jab?

    He obviously was great in his prime, but look how good he was after his prime. Beating Mercer and pushing the likes of Evander Holyfield and McCall when he was long past it.

    I just wonder what Larry would be like today with modern science etc?

    Is he the H2H Goat? I think he has a seriously strong case and I may be in the minority but I think he would Lewis if Larry fought in the same era. Battle of the jabs, but Larry had plenty of balls and would climb up off the canvas and keep coming

    Definitely a great, great fighter that I think often gets overlooked by casuals especially
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
    AdamT, Jan 12, 2024
    AdamT, Jan 12, 2024
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  2. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    ikrasevic, Jan 12, 2024
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  3. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Thanks for attaching your thread
    I have likely seen it before, but will make some interesting reading to glance over it again
     
    AdamT, Jan 12, 2024
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  4. MixedMartialLaw

    MixedMartialLaw Fight sports enthusiast Full Member

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    Remember before this past fall when Fury was the H2H GOAT for many? Haha
     
    MixedMartialLaw, Jan 12, 2024
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  5. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Holmes was good/great but had his fair share of close and controversial fights and ended up losing to a LHW while still in his prime. For that basis I can't call him the H2H GOAT. Still Lewis for me.
     
    It's Ovah, Jan 12, 2024
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  6. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Fair but lewis got smashed twice by guys. He may have won the rematch but Holmes never lost to that calibre in his prime

    Lewis also had a controversial decision against Mercer, who old Holmes has a victory over. Holmes also pushed a much younger Holyfield all the way who lennox calls his toughest opponent

    Not saying Holmes is definitely greater, but we can look at the bad on anybody record

    Ali was rubbish. Pushed all the way by Jones, dropped heavily by Cooper, really lost all 3 fights vs Norton and a 7 fight novice beat him for the title
     
    AdamT, Jan 12, 2024
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  7. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Well, it's not just the above I'm basing my opinion on. He also let far too many opponents get inside his wheelhouse, and often let himself get drawn into brawls that didn't necessarily favour him. Had his ring generalship been only a tad better it'd raise his standings immeasurably in my view as he ticks almost all the other boxes in terms of quality. Not the hardest puncher perhaps, but neither was Ali.
     
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  8. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    He was clearly past it against Spinks. As for close wins, I don't think there was any controversy in his wins over Norton and Witherspoon (I scored Witherspoon fight 118-111 for Holmes). So, Carl Williams fight was the only one you can make case of scoring it either way (just like Lewis - Mercer for example). Well, ancient Holmes probably got a gift against Harris at 48, but he was robbed blatantly against prime Brian Nielsen at 47. Plus he deserved to win the rematch with Spinks.

    I rank Holmes at #3 by greatness after Ali and Louis. And I rank him at #2 H2H after Ali
     
    Unique Way, Jan 12, 2024
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  9. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Head to head goat? No, but against a general top 20 heavyweights of all time list Larry wins way more than he loses.
     
    Reinhardt, Jan 12, 2024
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  10. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I agree with this
    I think Ali pre exile/post Liston was the best. He had the speed, confidence, footwork and the strength of his later years. We all saw how much heart he had in his comeback and how tough he was

    I think I would put Larry just behind him and ahead of Lewis, but I wouldn't fight too hard with anyone placing Lewis ahead of him
     
    AdamT, Jan 12, 2024
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  11. Joy_Rones

    Joy_Rones Member Full Member

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    Larry is definitely up there with the H2H goats. I have him above Ali and Vitali, but below Lewis.
     
    Joy_Rones, Jan 12, 2024
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  12. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    I can't rank Lewis the best H2H since he was knocked out twice with a single punch by good but not murderous punchers. Just compare how many McCall's right hands Holmes eat without ever going down in round 9, and he was 45 then. And in his very previous fight McCall KOed 29 y.o. Lewis with a single right hand.

    Saying that, Lewis' size, power, skills and clinching would make him tough opponent for anybody. But I don't think he would withstand a power of guys like Fireman or Liston who were much harder punchers than McCall or Rahman. And I don't think he would outbox prime Ali or prime Holmes. And he definitely isn't stopping Muhammad or Larry
     
    Unique Way, Jan 12, 2024
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  13. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think he's third H2H
     
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  14. Mickc

    Mickc Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holmes has always been under appreciated,great skill set,great attributes,great recovery powers and literally fought the best of a few eras . Ali era Tyson era Holyfield era,the one fight missing from his resume is Foreman which imo would have been a great match up anytime during there respective careers.
     
    Mickc, Jan 12, 2024
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  15. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    Yes, and I think Larry would beat George at any point from 1977 to 1997
     
    Unique Way, Jan 12, 2024
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