Algieri and Paulie on Beterbiev positive tests

“Atypical” not “Adverse” which would constitute a negative test result. I’m a huge Beterbiev fan, BUT the main issue is the follow up confirmatory test’s weren’t conducted to determine if the testosterone levels were from endogenous or exogenous consumption. YES the test were negative, but the confirmatory tests were not conducted, so the test results were not conclusive enough to exonerate him. “Atypical” means higher than normal? So were those from endogenous or exogenous consumption? The punching power has always been there, it’s about the stamina, durability, and recovery after training.


So “Atypical” and “Adverse” is semantics and scientific jargon that an endocrinologist would use, so people who are not familiar with the terms, would conclude that “Atypical” means negative. VADA didn’t conduct confirmatory test, which means they didn’t exonerate him, or reaffirm his innocence, they failed to identify if it was exogenous or endogenous, and that would’ve killed this whole situation. He will always be accused and suspected of cheating, when they could’ve released a statement saying, the test results were endogenous and resulted from a strenuous training regimen, instead they left it up to our interpretation.

 

It doesn't look good for Beterbiev.
The most suspect thing is what Paulie alluded to, how far out are his levels for a 38 year old.
The 'naturally occurring' argument becomes weaker the older they are.
Beterbiev obviously has higher testosterone than an average male, but so would every boxer. Would he still have such exceptional levels at that age?

 

The big question is, are the results atupically high FOR HIM(as in does he usually have 600 but for this thest it was a 800) or where they SUPERHUMAN(like 1500ng/dl)? And if thats the case its even harder to believe with the HGH since that declines far more after puberty and early 20s than testosterone, which may only decrease 1% a year.

Also assuming he has been getting tested a while, if he just has naturally very high testosterone, why ist this test atypical now and not 10 years ago at his first drug test?

Onviously they must be talking about endogenous testosterone as exogenous testosterone should have immediately been flagged as an adverse finding

Also cant be the first time hes been tested after a workout. So im having trouble believing that its just a fluctuation.

How come this happened now? At 38 years old?

 

All boxers must be randomly tested 24/7.

 

That's why they do biological passports, every person is different and their biology is different what's high for one person will be average or maybe even low for another. You can be banned for abnormalities in the biological passport even if you have never had an adverse result.

I assume Beterbiev being based in Canada would be tested by the Canadian Anti Doping Program (CADP) and so would have a record of his biological passport so they can see any inconsistencies.

So I assume they are elevated to a level where it's above his usual parameters but not high enough to prove he did use testosterone or HGH. If he continues to have these elevated results beyond his normal range then he'll no doubt be banned even if he doesn't fail a test. One elevated result doesn't prove anything or at least doesn't prove enough that a doping body could uphold a ban in a court of law but multiple would be sufficient.

So right now Beterbiev should be suspected of possible doping. But if no further elevated results occur then he goes back to being like everyone else at the elite level who has never failed a test, technically clean but still probably doping, lol, just they are unable to prove it.

 

VADA didn’t conduct confirmatory test which would’ve determined if the raised testosterone levels were from Endogenous or Exogenous consumption. That’s the main thing Eddie Hearns was saying, and he mentioned transparency and accountability.

 

I like this response, that’s a great assessment

 

I didn’t see this response, I think Beterbiev’s punching power has always been there and he unequivocally and unquestionably is a generational puncher. I don’t believe he’s juicing for punching power, it’s not like he wasn’t a knock out artist in the amateurs. I believe or suspect that he’s using for recovery, stamina, and durability. He’s approaching 40 and he’s intensifying his workout regimens and routine. I suspect he’s using Erythropoietin (EPO) which is naturally produced by the kidneys, and would explain the HGH increase on the test. I’m assuming Beterbiev has a biological passport, which explains the “Atypical” results because his levels were unusual, and the main reason he’s suspect is because they didn’t do confirmatory testing to determine if it was synthetic or endogenous. They gave him an additional 10 days for the follow up test and it’s out of your system in 24 hours I believe.

 

Would you be surprissed if Beterbiev were roided to the grills?

Not even a little bit.

 

He probably is on something. At nearly 39 years old he fought with a young man's vigor against Smith throwing 197 punches between the 3rd and 4th rounds. The elevated GH is more telling than the testosterone as unlike test levels which can fluctuate significantly throughout the day, natural GH is fairly stable and is declining by late 30s.

 

He did 4 follow up tests and they all returned negative.

ESPN also said he has been tested 22 times and never tested positive

The issue is this; how long is the half life of HGH and testosterone? If it is super short, then there's hardly any way to catch someone unless:

- Someone overdoes it
- Your metabolism is too slow and it takes a long time to get rid of
- You are tested within a window of having taken PEDs recently

He may be genetically gifted and have natural levels that are elevated due to genetics
He may be genetically gifted and have a very fast metabolism to flush it out very quickly

 

I think the detection window for testosterone suspension is a few days; for testosterone esters it can be much longer (weeks or over a month). HGH has a short half life and is cleared within 24 hours I believe.
As mentioned endogenous testosterone can be distinguished from exogenous testosterone by 13C isotope content; given the short window to detect administration of pure testosterone then any abnormal sample should be subject to isotope testing (but of course won't be given this is boxing).