Joe Joyce will be able to rebuild? Set to Face Kash Ali, not a good start. Tony Yoka would be.

Manny Pacquiao, back to back losses to Bradley and Marquez, still relevant and goes on to partake in the biggest PPV in history.

Erik Morales, 3 consecutive losses to Raheem and Pacquiao x2, fights for world title in next fight.

Marco Antionio Barrera, back to back losses to Junior Jones, the next year fights for a world title and goes on to be an ATG.

As for Joyce, hard to say if he can rebuild. Now he's been KO'ed, maybe he will be gun shy, maybe he loses something mentally in the ring because of that. He's in a hard position that he doesn't have much time to rebuild given his age and not many have the power of a Zhang so he might struggle to get big fights. He worked hard and took risks to get where he did, the climb back up will probably we just as hard, he's not getting a title shot or eliminator just handed to him, just because he's British, he'll have to earn it again by taking on tough opponents.

 

Joshua 2.0

 

Joyce's resumé includes solid fighters like Jennings, Takam, Dubois and Parker, the latter 2 of which are widely regarded as Top 10. He has one of the best resumés at HW, and he lost to probably the 6th or 7th best HW out there. Ridiculous to call him irrelevant based on that.

 

You said only Brit and American fighters can have back to back losses and still be relevant, I proved that to be false. Now you are changing to parameters of your statement to justify your position which again is one based on a fallacy.

Yes Brits and American fighters get some level of privilege and advantage but that was earned by a century of history in the sport that many other nations lack. Boxing is a sport not for the privileged but has it's roots it working class and poverty. Both US and UK have over time invested and built not only a history but a fanbase for the sport which means money, which is where the privilege comes from and the UK privilege in the context of the history of the sport is a relatively recent thing. UK were always 2nd to the US and only in the last 15 years or so has the UK begun to find themselves roughly on par with the US due the economics of boxing in the UK becoming more lucrative.

It's harder for some fighters in other nations to get that leg up at the start for sure but there are plenty of examples of fighters from other countries becoming the cash cows of their divisions. Canelo, Pacquiao even Inoue today is the marquee 122lb fighter. Hell in the US it's Mexican fighters that are the real draw now with often American fighters struggling due to a lack of fanbase due to the demographics of the sports audience in the US.

Golovkin is another example of the fighter from a small nation reaching the top, same with Loma. Loma got a world title shot in his 2nd fight, how many British and American fighters have had that privilege? Yes it was earned but so was the position US and UK boxing holds now, it didn't just fall into their lap, British boxing now is bigger than it was when I first started watching the sport, that's because promoters and boxers put the work into create a thriving sport in the UK.

I never said he was number 3, while I am a fan of Joyce, I never thought he'd beat Fury, Usyk, Joshua and I even had Wilder likely beating him. Yes some people overrated Joyce after the Parker win, I wasn't one of them. I knew he'd beat Parker so that wasn't a surprise so I wasn't then suddenly thinking he's better than I thought.

The loss to Zhang was a surprise but even then I said before the fight, Zhang was the most dangerous fight Joyce had taken as Zhang unlike the other punchers Joyce had fought was a counter puncher and even iron chinned fighters can be KO'ed by punches they don't see coming.

So while at times I have been wrong about Joyce, I've always been pretty consistent about where I thought he stood. He was never a top 3 guy, maybe could of won a title, but that seems unlikely now and yes he's isn't as good as I thought but he's not far off from where I always thought he stood even now after the losses to Zhang.

 

But he earned that privilege by winning titles before and becoming the cash cow of the division. He isn't some no name fighter just being handed a shot at the winner. It's not like when say Arreola got title shot after title shot without beating anyone good. Joshua has fought for years to reach the point where he can be in a position to be targeted by everyone in the division. He would be the next most lucrative fight for Fury if he beats Usyk and so it's a logical choice and in the end money decides what happens in boxing, you may not like it, I often too don't like it but it's the reality of the sport.

Also if Fury beats Uysk, if we did a poll on here as to who Fury fights next, I'm certain Joshua would come out on top. So let's not pretend it's a fight the fans don't want.

 

Is Joe Joyce fighting for a title or even a ranked contender next? Nope he's fighting a nobody in Birmingham like any fighter would after a loss, he's taking a step backwards. How is that privilege?

 

Yes Britain is a wealthy country but that doesn't mean all British fighters are making good money or that was always the case. Like I said before boxing wasn't always that big in the UK, plenty of British fighters have been frozen out or struggled to make a living. British boxing over time grew to what it is now.

Even Joyce himself struggled early in his career, no big promoters wanted him, he had to sign with David Haye of all people, he then moved to the US and signed a deal with Al Haymon which got him the Jennings fight, he was probably signed to lose to the then well regarded Jennings, but he won that fight he then signed with Warren to secure a fight with Dubois again a fight he was probably signed to lose and build Dubois but again he upset the odds and won. He earned his position by fighting and beating opponents he wasn't always favoured too. Yes it helps he was British in a country with many boxing fans but they really started to take notice of him after the Dubois win, he had to earn his way to that position.

Mahkmudov simply wasn't good enough. He was signed to one of the biggest promoters in Top Rank, he was given a fight with Takam and instead of impressing he struggled but did win and that got him into a position to fight the undefeated Kabayel on the biggest card of the year. But unlike Joyce when given that big opportunity he lost. Had he beaten Kabayel he no doubt would of moved on from there and still be hyped but fact is he's not even Dubois level, let alone Joyce level.

Yes Joshua is making a 3rd run at the titles. But did he not earn that? When he turned pro, even as Olympic champion nobody was claiming he would go onto do what he did. When he stepped up instead of struggling with a Takam like Makh he crushed Kevin Johnson. When he stepped up again to fight an undefeated heavy instead of being KO'ed by a Kabayel he KO'ed Whyte in an entertaining fight. He took a shot at the world title in Martin and had to give Haymon options on his next 2 fights to do so and pay Martin a huge payday to do so and he himself accept the smaller purse, despite him being the draw. Did he not then take on Wlad in a fight many on here said wouldn't happen, especially after it was rescheduled that just confirmed it was Hearn lying and the fight wouldn't happen and then we got one of the best heavyweight fights in years. Then Joshua unified, faced all his mandatories all the while as Wilder fought journeymen. Joshua has earned his position, did he have advantages, yes for sure, but he still had to do what he did.

How should he be done? He's still the biggest draw in the division, still young enough to win titles. He will never be the best in his era, the Usyk losses prove that, that doesn't mean he just rolls over and quits. Yes he's in a privileged position but that position again was earned and yes he had advantages others didn't have, but that's just life in general.

Guys like Makh, Hrgovic etc have it harder for sure, but as I said before plenty of fighters have had similar disadvantages and risen to the top. Even Uysk was probably signed by Hearn to lose to Joshua, had everything stacked against him, had to wait for his mandatory title shot, but he has gotten to the top.

 

Because of his nationality, Joyce will get plenty of opportunities until he retires, that's how it works in boxing, the British have a large British market behind them and they don't need to worry about fights...

 

True he'll have opportunities but just like on the way up he has to back them up. I'd say of all the British fighters who have had the most "privilege" if we want to call it that is Dubois. I mean what did he do again? Made up stories about dropping Joshua, got him hyped early beat nobody yet was a clear betting favourite when he was matched up with Olympic silver medallist Joyce, lost that fight then quickly got a shot at Trevor Bryan which earned him a shot vs Usyk. We want to talk about British privilege Dubois is the best example now, he's had so many unearned opportunities. Say what you will about Warren but he's done a great job to get Dubois the opportunities he's had.