Does Cleveland Williams hit hard or really hard?

The report of the 2nd Williams v Terrell fight .
"Ernie Terrell, 198 1/2, fighting with a cut over his right eye, upset No. 4 ranked heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams, 210, Saturday night in a 10 round nationally televised bout at the Arena. Terrell won by a split decision. Terrell started off fast, winning the first two rounds. His best punch was his left jab which kept Williams off balance. Williams rallied strong in the 3rd round and stunned Terrell with a left hook which referee Pete Tomasco ruled a slip. After an even 4th round, Williams scored heavily in the 5th and opened the cut over Terrell's right eye. In the 6th, Terrell peppered Williams' right eye, and although it was not cut, it was so swollen he could hardly see out of it. Terrell rallied in the 9th which apparently won him the fight. He scored with a series of close combination punches. Williams won the 10th round over a tiring Terrell, who was physically exhausted at the end." - Associated Press

• Unofficial AP scorecard - 46-45 Williams.
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• I think the fact that Williams lost a split dec to Terrell, beat no 8 ranked Miteff,,beat no8 ranked Daniels ,and held no 2 ranked Machen to a draw,indicates he was somewhat more than ,"a big stiff guy beating set ups but never able to beat the best fighters he faced."As our self appointed expert claims.

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More from our resident expert.
" the fact remains that Williams popped into the ratings by beating Billy Daniels and Alex Miteff, two guys who would only be rated for the briefest of times"

"Briefest of times?"
Miteff was Ring ranked;
NO 8.SEP 1959
NO8.APRIL1960
NO 7. AUG 1960
NO8. NOV 1961
There were possibly other dates but these were the ones I could definitely confirm based on my more readily available Ring mags.

More, "pearls".

"Williams barely beat Daniels"

1st fight.
"Third ranked Cleveland Williams scored a bloody unanimous decision Saturday night over 6th ranked heavyweight Billy Daniels in their nationally televised 10 round bout. Daniels rocked Williams in the 1st round with a whistling right to the chin. But after that round the fight belonged to Williams, who stalked Daniels like a big cat throwing effective punches. Williams opened up a cut over Daniels' right eye in the 3rd round, another one over the left eye in the 8th round and bloodied Daniels' nose in the 9th. Daniels was in trouble several times, and he slipped twice but he was never knocked down. In the explosive 9th round, Williams staggered Daniels three different times with powerful jaw-crushing left hooks. But each time the game and crafty Daniels managed to clinch until the cobwebs cleared from his head." -United Press International

• Unofficial UPI scorecard - 97-92 Williams

2nd fight.

"Cleveland Williams, one of the four fighters picked for the heavyweight championship elimination series, won a unanimous 10 round decision over Billy Daniels Wednesday night. Williams, of Houston, is now the no. 2 ranking heavyweight while Daniels, of New York, is ranked No. 8. Williams stalked his opponent but was able to land few solid blows because of Daniels' back-treading, wind-milling type of defense. While the match was billed locally as a part of the WBA heavyweight title elimination series, it was not sanctioned as such by the WBA." -Associated Press

• Prior to this bout the WBA had named Williams, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Terrell and Doug Jones to take part in their elimination series to determine their new titleholder after stripping Muhammad Ali of the their share of the title for signing an immediate rematch with Sonny Liston, which violated their rules.

• On November 20th, 1964 the WBA then named Cleveland Williams to fight Ernie Terrell for the vacant WBA heavyweight title. However, on November 28th, Williams was shot in an altercation with a police officer. Eventually, Ernie Terrell met Eddie Machen on March 5th, 1965 for the vacant title.

 

That is a very good explanation. It's a carbon copy of my thoughts. I think more or less the same would explain Shavers as a fighter. One thing is raw power another thing is having the skills to land it.

 

Off the top of my head, Doug Jones, Hurricane Jackson, and Roy Harris all refused to step in the ring with him.

 

Excellent post! It should be noted, Williams had damaged hands against Terrell in their rematch. He spoke about it here.

"I hurt my hands on Billy Daniels on March 9. A couple of weeks later I banged them up on Young Jack Johnson. I couldn't throw a punch without a stabbing pain going through my arm. But the promoter had set up this return match. We didn't want to let him down. It was a mistake. Even so, I thought I licked him, but it was in Philadelphia, his home town and he got a hometown decision."

Source:: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/99985978/the-los-angeles-times/

• Williams scheduled bout on April 13th with Ernie Terrell was placed in jeopardy due to Williams' injuring both hands during the bout. But the Terrell-Williams bout took place as planned. Source: https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Cleveland_Williams_vs._Young_Jack_Johnson

Their was also talk about this immediately after the Johnson bout before he faced Terrell so it can't be dismissed as a post-loss excuse.

"Heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams scored a costly TKO over Young Jack Johnson Tuesday night in the final round of a scheduled 10-rounder. Williams signed for a television bout against Ernie Terrell April 13, injured both hands in the wild brawl with Johnson. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/99984956/des-moines-tribune/

Regarding Mr. Compton's claim about Williams barely beating Daniels. This is just one of many examples of a consistent pattern where his viewpoints contradict ring reports, or anyone with two eyes.

 

I agree. One of the best posters on this forum. Unlike the other self proclaimed historian, he's actually objective, polite, and oddly enough seems to have eyes.

 

Were anyone’s ears burning on behalf of The Big Cat? Lol.

As coincidence would have it, Rainy Day Boxing just very recently uploaded a nice short vid on Williams.

I’m sure what you see and hear is likely already well familiar - a nice vid package nonetheless.

There is one amusing clip insert in which a young Ali, while acknowledging Williams power, mistakenly attributes the breaking of Liston’s jaw to Cleveland.

Of course we know it was Marty Marshall who turned that trick - though of course, again, Cleve did break Sonny’s nose.

I actually view the attempt to downgrade Williams’ quality and power (down from what it was actually perceived as during his own time) as beyond reasonable and an example of myopic, ill informed revisionism.

Anyway, with no agenda to sway opinion, if inclined and you have a few mins to spare, you might want to kick back and enjoy the package for its own sake : -

This content is protected

 

Thanks for that Pug,great stuff.

 

No worries Cec, glad you enjoyed it.

 

Ha! You wish, you old tart!!

You're the reason for the saying 'Every man has his Price'

 

Watching it now. It's a well made video, but what is that monstrosity at 3:34?