Joe Louis vs David Tua

Some people have the mindset that power + chin = head to head monster, and they don't think very far beyond that.

In practice power + chin will only get you so far.

 

Again people here love entertaining sluggers.

David Tua would not win a round vs. Muhammad Ali. Not a round.

 

The man who lost every big fight in his career...against Joe Louis. Time to pee in a cup!

 

Name 3 different boxers who had both "a good chin" and "good defense" who were knocked down 10x.

You're a knowledgeable guy, it should be easy.

Braddock was garbage. Numbers don't lie and he just didn't have a respectable KO%, nor does he pass the eye test or testimony of opponents rating him as a puncher.

 

That would indeed be easy.

Just go for men who fought a ridiculous level of opposition, or continued fighting when they were well past their best.

Sometimes the numbers do lie, and this is perhaps a good example.

Early in his career, Braddock was a highly touted light heavyweight, and seen as something of a wrecking ball in the division.

Chronic hand problems saw him relegated to journeyman status.

I don't need to tell you how the fairy tale ends of course.

Louis himself said that Braddock hit harder than Schmeling, but that eh did not have the same quality of delivery.

It is reasonable that you question Braddock's credentials as a puncher, but this is probably a case where we need to keep an open mind.

 

Reading some posts in this thread I was wondering when Tua became the HW GOAT and how I missed it...

 

IMO using Schmelling beating Louis as an argument for Tua beating Louis is all wrong.
It is comparing tomatoes to potatoes ... very different fighters and very different figting styles.

My man Max didn't beat Louis out of the blue thanks to a lucky punch.
All the opposite, that KO was the logical outcome of Schmelling having a master gameplan based on counterpunching Louis. Fron the 1rst round on Max was all over Louis outboxing him, jabbing and rightcrossing the heck out of him.

I can't imagine Tua outboxing Louis. Sorry that is not a credible scenario.
Sure in an hyphtetical match, Tua has a puncher's chance and with his strong chin probably goes the distance and that's it.
Louis is still the superior, more skilled fighter.

Louis UD.

 

So name some.

The fact Braddock started off as a noteworthy LIGHT heavyweight puncher doesn't help your case at all.

Bob Foster moved up from light heavy and his punches just bounced off of guys like Frazier like tennis balls.

 

Tommy Loughran is a fighter renowned for his defense and durability, and he had at least that many knockdowns.

It doesn't exactly help your case either.

 

Tua was too slow to survive Joe Louis combinations for 15 rds. I see damage to the face and the accumulation would cause a stoppage sometime during the fight depending on how much gas Joe applies to the peddle. I would advise caution, in being overly aggressive but the best defense would be to let Tua feel your power early and then let the jab open up opportunities with Tua at bay. Louis TKO 10th.

 

1 down, 2 to go.

It actually does, it means Louis chin was worse than I thought if a light heavy can drop him. Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Tyson, etc all fought guys who were noteworthy at light heavy and weren't dropped.

 

Joe Gans and Joe Jeanette.

I could go on.

It is only a matter of finding fighters who were matched hard.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Braddock was not a light heavyweight at the time, and some pretty durable heavyweights have been dropped by former light heavies.

The bottom line is that everybody who dropped Louis, was regarded as being a puncher in some quarters.

I woudl also add that grading a fighters chin on incidents where they were dropped, but not particularly close to being stopped, is a very unsound methodology in itself.

 

Interesting, so Joe Gans 5 stoppage losses and 10 knockdowns is a fighter with a "good" chin and defense to you? Is the rationalization that it's sort of inevitable because he had such a long career and fought many ranked opponents?

On a scale of 1-10, what do you rate Louis

Chin /10

Defense /10

So if 10 knockdowns isn't a sound methodology even if a boxer wasn't close to being stopped, what is the explanation? Did Joe have poor balance? I can think of plenty of fighters who didn't exactly have "granite" chins who didn't get dropped that many times.

 

I honestly don't know if Louis out boxes him and stops him like Uz or if Tua , so much stronger and fast starting , does a Michael Moorer on him ... ( yes, I said it ) ... neither would shock me ..

 

Louis is a guy whose chin is pretty darn good, but not up with the best men of the division.

Bottom line, his chin is not going to bail you out, if you are not bringing anything but power to the table.

Cal it 8.5-9.

His defense was probably as good as you could get, for a fighter of his style, without sacrificing aggression and killer instinct.

He broadly used the same defense as Floyd Mayweather, but used it to minimize risk while going on the attack.

Perhaps call it 8.5 - 9 again?

The answer to that is very simple.

He fought a disproportionate number of good fighters, like Loughran, Gans and Jeanette, and many others.