Punch drunk ex-fighters

Saw the following interview with Terry Norris not too long ago. Couldn't believe how bad he sounded...

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Thankfully punch drunk syndrome is not as common as it used to be. A genuine advance in the care of Boxers. I heard that ex British Lightweight Champion Graeme Earl is struggling but he has had other problems as some will know.

 

All too many, and not a pleasant subject to discuss.

 

I thought Joe Cortez sounded pretty crap as well.

Terry was a super-welter, junior middle, not a welter. Come on, Joe. You had one job.

Terry's CTE leads to his permanently contracting his muscles, I think. His body is still very hard as, essentially, he is exercising all day, every day.

 

In bygone eras, fighters who weren’t in the realm of great weren’t exposed to the public so much after their careers finished.

As such, there was likely a lot of damage there that was unseen - though the effects on guys like Ad Wolgast and Bat Nelson are well described in literature.

With multi media today, we see a lot more of the not so uncommon negative effects of a career in boxing. Big Daddy Riddick Bowe is another example - and fighter’s can of course now upload themselves without anyone necessarily setting up an IV with them.

Jack Dempsey’s This Is Your Life episode had a terrific guest list of some of Jack’s previous opponents/victims who might not have had such exposure if it wasn’t for the purpose of honouring Jack.

Of those opponents, I noted that The Plasterer, Fred Fulton, sounded somewhat slurry though still appearing in pretty good shape otherwise.

Actually, my sampling doesn’t really exemplify my point and perhaps could even be seen as a cherry pick - lol - because the other guys, Carpentier, Firpo etc. appeared and sounded fine - and not least Jack himself, who came up in boxing as hard as the best of them - still very articulate, still looking robust and strong - I think Jack was in his early 60s as at the time of filming.

Big Jess Willard was a notable omission on the show - perhaps invited but possibly relied “No, F- that, why in God’s earth would I want to honour someone who beat the absolute bejesus out of me!” Ha.

 

Bowe is pretty bad, has been for a long time.

 

All cases are sad, but some grab us (or just me) more than others for various reasons - and for me, Norris is one of those cases.

Terry comes across as a genuinely nice guy - and yes I’ve seen more recent vision of Terry training and keeping himself in terrific shape.

I couldn’t say for sure but it appears his thinking is fine and that his issues are primarily motor/muscular related - and there are occasions when you can detect Terry’s frustration with his compromised speech.

Sad to see but good to see Norris at any rate. I don’t think that damaged fighters should be hidden away, as if swept under the carpet - for their sake (if they still want to put themselves out there) and to keep it real.

 

I think you are fooling yourself.

 

The boxer is a tragic figure isn’t he?

 

You know Jess also hated Houdini? - it was to be fair Harry’s own doing.

 

It is impossible to get out of boxing unscathed. Even the "success" stories, I will not name because they are good guys and I don't want to be a downer, generally have significant signs of boxing related decline. Often they will coach themselves up for interviews, but the behind the scenes stuff is pretty bad. Just because you can get it together and cut a decent 30 seconds (or even 10-20 minutes) doesn't mean you're invincible. It's a sign of respect that I am saying it is such a deep and comprehensive issue. Even guys who fought them all with "legendary chins" suffer in silence.

Some fighters are often allowed to show severe cognitive decline and continue to fight even in the current age. I've seen a fighter (and trained at his gym for a short spell) with fewer than 5 pro fights who had severe cognitive decline to the point of being functionally unemployable. Yes this individual had 100+ amateur fights and trained hard, but still, almost every top level pro has many amateur fights.

I think I can count on four hands the number of guys I will see well post career and think they aren't suffering. I think some got it better than others and for some very lucky and skilled professionals, the trade was well worth it. A slight decline in cognition for a big payoff. For most, I think if you re-ran the clock, they'd choose differently. And the more they gave, the worse they ended. I don't want to name names, but our blood and guts favorites were ransacked by the mental decline; only anesthetized to further their careers by the deafening roar of the crowd.

Even someone who can pull it together and "do business" like a famous promoter for example, exhibit mood swings and odd behavior that are consistent with boxing related brain damage. There are two truths in civilian life I've taken from boxing, 1. everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face and 2. a stiff jab from a real boxer is a harder shot than any normal person has prepared for by a significant factor of magnitude.

I think calling someone "punch drunk" is a bit shitty and reductive but I get the message. You can definitely get out of boxing with some cash and some faculties, but "good" is relative to your potential removed from thousands of concussive and subconcussive impacts.

reference: headgear study in britain (~30% of amateur boxers surveyed showed head trauma consistent with brain damage, e.g. severe brain swelling, before 10 amateur fights, i believe)

in some studies the prevelance of concussions in boxing was at 75% among amateur boxers and indicated that aging, going pro, and continuing hard training where many brain injuries occur could only worsen that figure. (Loosemore et al., 2015a; Zazryn et al., 2006). This study was conducted between 2005 and 2009, btw.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/17461391.2021.1872711

 

I saw Norris in 2022 and spoke to him. His brain is working fine and he’s in great physical shape. Just his speech is very slurred. I’ve been around fighters who are clearly more eroded.

 

Pretty much every boxer has some degree of mental degeneration. Some are good at hiding it. Some go to speech therapists and other specialists to train to hide it. But it's there, even in guys who just had amateur careers. The game comes at a price.