The chin and defensive skills of Joe Louis

Defense leakier than his chin was bad, 100%. Schmeling had the answer for many, many rounds and detonated many, many overhand rights onto Louis but it still took a hell of an effort to floor him.

Chin 7.5, Defense 6.5. I could move up maybe a half point on the chin, even, Louis was very tough.

 

No one on the thread has mentioned Joe Louis at all, so I'm discounting the possibility that Joe has an 8.5-9/10 chin (assuming Oliver McCall has a 10/10).
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/mount-rushmore-of-hw-chins.713014/
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/top-10-hw-chins-of-all-time.712888/page-2

 

Louis’ defense was decent, as shown in his fight against Max Baer for example. But he was also somewhat dependent on his Blackburn crouch.

His chin is average imo, he took bombs from Schmeling in their fight and also took some punches from Marciano in old age. However, Conn managed to rock him so his chin probably won’t be as sturdy against the super heavyweights of the division.

Even in that case, I do feel like Louis’ heart would be enough to bring him off the canvas.

 

Louis was stopped twice in 16 years, once pre peak and in his last ever fight against an ATG. He had 69 fights in this time and fought some big rough punchers. I can't begin to fathom how his chin could possibly be under a 7 at worst.

Louis was well on the way out when dropped three times in two fights by Walcott, who was a real sniper in there. Braddock and Baer dropped him in the 1st round, that can happen. Schmeling, a good puncher, whooped on him all night with over 100 flush right hands.

The thing about Louis is he won every fight bar two when dropped. He recovered super fast and i include this (recuperative powers) in the chin stakes personally. By the time punches were flying again Louis was ready to roll and usually looking to knock his opponent out as they opened up.

Holmes and Louis are very similar, both got hurt and dropped quite a bit (Louis a bit more but not by the length of the straight) but both recovered extremely well. You could rate Holmes chin one level or a half level higher for various factors but also remember that Louis was always stalking his opponent and looking to knock them out. He was more likely to be caught moving forward. I'd be happy to rate Joe's chin an 8 and Holmes a 9, roughly.

You don't have a career like Joe Louis with a 6-10 chin.

 

Perfect analysis.

 

Thanks mate, i think it's pretty fair.

While we are going.......would you also agree it's fair to say Joe's chin never cost him a single fight in his career? Schmeling had him covered in their first fight even if it went the distance and he was never beating Marciano when so far over the hill.

Given his career was immense enough for him to be the consensus #1 or #2 heavyweight and he never lost a fight because of his chin, well that's pretty solid going.

 

Absolutely agree that Joe’s chin didn’t directly cause him to lose a fight. As you already said, Joe copped numerous right hands from Schmeling over the course of the fight before he finally fell for good.

Also, just imo, but the perception of the quality of Joe’s defence can’t be frozen as at that fight because, as we know, Joe corrected his vulnerability to the right hand counter (that flaw being Joe’s failure to properly return his left to the guard position after jabbing).

Take out the 5 KDS which were obviously suffered by Joe when he was clearly past prime (vs Walcott (x 3) and Marciano (x2 - including the KO by Rocky) - we’re left with just 5 KDs.

You also already made the point perfectly re recuperation - aside from the Schmeling fight - none of those KDs saw Joe in serious trouble after the fact.

Just imo again, Joe was caught partially off balance when Braddock dropped him - Joe had just thrown and missed a big right I think - and Jimmy then caught Joe while the bombers feet were close together and out of position after missing the right hand.

Buddy Baer landed a very good left hook but the way Joe fell, through the ropes and onto the ring apron, was awkward and made it seem that much more dramatic.

But even with all that, Joe was up and back in the ring by the count of 4 - and he was basically fine when the fight resumed.

 

A sensible and logical post,as we would expect from you.

 

Quality post.I've often wondered if Louis underestimated the length of Buddy Baer's reach when he was caught with that long left hook? Joe certainly went to work when he got back on his feet.
As J T pointed out, Louis was coming forward in his fights so he was usually in his opponents wheelhouse,in the danger zone.

 

Completely agree with all of that.

 

Cheers Mac and yes, JT nailed it and succinctly so.

 

Thread …

 

Galento only knocked him down once.

 

I don´t believe in chins all that much. Not in the sense most do.
To me, Louis got dropped because he was not a very focused guy all the time, he had deconcentration lapses. He could move, he could slip a punch very well, his defense was fine, he knew how to do it and did it, he just didn´t do it sometimes...

To quote Tami Mauriello when he fought Louis: "I got too godmaned careless". Louis was a little negletful sometimes.

 

No nuance or context added to your post.
Louis only got dropped 3 times post-Schmeling 1 and your questioning his chin? All three of those were by shots he didn't see coming/shots that caught him off balance. Louis would never get hit with those shots for the remainder of the fight which any intelligent observer would say is evidence of good defense.
Half of the knockdowns Louis experienced in his career ( v Walcott and Marciano) were from when he was over-the-hill. That means he experienced 5 knockdowns in 57 fights.
The two knockdowns from the 1st fight with Schmeling are before his peak. Louis fought the Schmeling fight blacked out after the 1st knockdown and took those right hands repeatedly until the 12th round. How many fighters you mentioned took a sustained beating like that and survived that long?
Bugner? Young? Byrd? Better defense than Louis? You are a casual.