Mike Tyson vs Joe Frazier (Ring TV Opinion)

The general consensus seems to be either Tyson early or Frazier late. I don't see Frazier getting obliterated so easily as what happened against Foreman since he was no longer at his best.

I've seen a photo from the Marvis Frazier fight where Joe came to do Mike's handwraps, and instead of trying to be intimidating as he usually was, Mike was showing nothing but the utmost respect for Joe.

 

If we're talking peak Tyson (mid-late 80's) vs peak Frazier (1969-71) ultimately I have to go with Frazier. Joe had great bounce and head movement in his prime years (Ali himself stated how hard it was to get a clean shot on Joe) which would neutralize Tyson's power somewhat. Plus Joe's non stop pressure, work rate, stamina, and just sheer heart and will would eventually wear Mike down. TKO for Frazier in 10!!

PS--Like Sonny Liston before him-Tyson very effectively relied on intimidation to get in his opponent's head. No WAY that works on Frazier--he'd probably laugh at him and snarl right back during the pre fight instructions LOL!!

 

Tyson TKO in 5. Joe never took a backward step and I think he’d play to Tyson’s strengths. The uppercuts get him.

 

I don't think Tyson of 1988 would have lacked confidence vs Frazier. Frazier had exactly the style that would suit Tyson. I think this fight would have resembled Tyson-Berbick to be honest. In terms of heart Frazier would always come in first, but, again, I don't think that would be a factor in this fight. Mike, at that state of his career, would have been too explosive, too fast, too accurate, too strong for Joe. I even dare say, that it could turn out as a mix of Tyson-Spinks and Tyson-Marvis Frazier. The most likely is a stoppage around 2. or 3 round for Tyson, though.

 

Found this great analysis while doing some online research on the topic. (It's a bit lengthy--but this is as good an analysis as I've seen to date!)


Tale of the Tape:
Size:
Mike Tyson is 5′10″ tall, with an 71 inch reach, and weighed 215 at his best
Frazier is 5′11 1/2 “ tall, with a 73 inch reach, and weighed about 205 in his prime
Size advantage: Slight to Frazier because of reach

Speed:
Tyson had incredible hand speed
Frazier was unusually quick, cut the ring off better than any swarmer ever
Speed advantage: Tyson

Strength:
Tyson was extremely strong
Frazier was slaughterhouse strong, Foreman said he was strong as a bull
Advantage: Joe Frazier

Power:
Tyson had power in both hands, and hit power punches in bunches
Known for a great left hook, Joe recorded five first-round knockouts and fourteen knockouts within the first three rounds. He had a KO percentage of 73% against all time great competition, including Ali, Foreman, Foster, Bonavena, and Jerry Quarry.
Power advantage: Even, Joe had the best left hook in history, and a good right, but Tyson hit hard and often with both hands

Fundamentals and technique:
Tyson has great fundamentals and sound technique under Rooney
Frazier had solid fundamentals, far better than he is given credit for
Fundamentals and technique: Even

Defense:
Tyson had an incredible defense with Rooney and a very good chin
Frazier had a very, very, good chin, he took straight shots from Foreman and got up and kept fighting; he had an all time great defense, the best slip and duck rates of any heavyweight champion in history
Defense advantage: Slight to Frazier

Intangibles:
Tyson had a good chin, a good ring IQ, but never beat a great fighter in his prime, and never got up to win, and this would be a stern test
George Foreman summed up Joe Frazier best:

“He was the toughest man I ever knew, the toughest fighter of our era, and he was a man. He was not two faced, like so many, Joe had only one face, there was only one Joe, and he was a hell of a man."
Intangibles advantage: Frazier

Special factor: If Mike did not get Joe out early, Joe would only get stronger as the fight advanced, and his ferocious inner strength would factor in more and more.

Joe Frazier never lost that deep drive and ferocity that made him special. Frazier’s whole career was summed up by the blind Joe roaring to Eddie Futch not to stop the 3rd Ali fight, which was the second to last fight of his career, saying:

“I want him Boss, I want him!”

Frazier vs Tyson

This fight would depend on which man imposed his style on the other.
Their styles may look alike, but are drastically different. Mike is a mid-range boxer-puncher, throwing volume power punches, but using his jab to set them up. Joe is a pure infighter, a swarmer, roaring inside and beating the hell out of his opponents.

If Tyson allowed Frazier to get inside, he would beat the hell out of Mike and stop him. If Tyson managed to move, bob and weave, against the original bob and weaver, and stay at mid-range, his deadly volume power punching could, over an accumulation of rounds. wear Joe down.

There is simply no way that Mike knocks Joe out in the first round. No one in Frazier's career knocked him out, and only 3 fighters knocked him down, and in 2 of those fights, he got up to win! If Mike was able to move, and stay out of Frazier's comfort zone, he was capable of wearing him down for a later TKO. Mike was also at a disadvantage in that Frazier, a rare fighter who never grew tired, would be firing away as hard in the 15th round as he was in the first. Mike grew tired, prime Joe Frazier did not.

Nonetheless, in the end, this would be a test of styles and wills. If Joe imposed his style on the shorter man, he would win. If Mike imposed his style, he would win.

The longer the fight lasted, the more it would favor Smokin’ Joe, who started slow, but got stronger as the time advanced. (The only other heavyweight this can be said of was the late, great, Rocky Marciano) If Mike was going to win, he would have to hold Joe out, and batter him to a TKO in the first six rounds. If Joe got inside, good night Mike. Joe would wear him down and out with his fierce body punching, and then stop him.

More that most fights, this would come down to who imposed their will on the other. My gut feeling is that Joe Frazier, a kid who was forced to leave home at 14 because of fears white farmers might lynch him, a kid who never had a break in his life, a man who never, ever quit, beats a fighter who never got up to win.

Monte Cox, the noted boxing historian, in rating fighters, gave Frazier the highest possible score for:

“Those who have superior will and courage are men like Jeffries (who once beat Tom Sharkey with a dislocated elbow). Also worthy of a 10 are Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, and Holyfield all who demonstrated the ability to come from behind and fight while hurt to win.”

Tyson, he gave a 7 to Frazier’s 10, because Mike simply did not have that kind of ability to get up when hurt and win. Mike never once got up and won - Joe did twice. Frank Warren, boxing promoter, says:

“I don’t think he’d [Mike Tyson] have beaten Joe Frazier”

Emmanuel Steward, the last great trainer, said of Joe and Mike:

“I think the intensity that he [Joe] had when he turned professional was really much on a kind of level very similar to a Mike Tyson. Joe might have been even a little bit more, in some ways, better than Mike to some degree.”

Finally, Ring and its resident boxing historian did a by the numbers comparison of Frazier and Tyson - and the results strongly favor Frazier:

“When one compares the prime performances of Tyson and Frazier, Frazier wins most of the statistical arguments. He was the more active combatant (53.6 punches per round to Tyson’s 34) whose punch distribution was more destructive (81.7% of Frazier’s total punch attempts and 89.8% of his overall connects were power shots to Tyson’s 67.1% and 79.5% respectively). Also, Frazier was more accurate overall (51.1% to 45.9%), attempted and connected with more power punches per round (43.8 attempts and 24.6 connects per round to Tyson’s 22.8 attempts and 12.4 connects per round) and was the more precise power-hitter (56.2% vs. 54.4% landed). Somewhat surprisingly, given their reputations, Frazier was also the harder fighter to hit, as his prime opponents landed 27.7% overall, 16% jabs and 35.8% power while Tyson’s foes connected on 34.1% overall, 28.1% jabs and 39.6% power.


I think Joe would have survived the early storm, getting up from the canvas, and as the rounds went by, imposed his will and won. But Iron Mike, at his best, was certainly capable of winning this as well…the one certainty is it would have been a WAR.

 

Ring TV calling a ko win by Frazier is silly.

Tyson IMO was literally better at everything (more power, faster, better feet, better combination puncher, better defensively), even chin. I can't really imagine a scenario in which Frazier wins.

I think Tyson may actually bumrush him, not as bad as he did his son............but pretty brutally.

 

I'll never take a disagreement with my opinion personally (unless it's regarding Hagler). My opinion wasn't formed in a vacuum, I've watched Frazier fight multiple times.

I also admit that I do have a bias against Joe Frazier (don't like him all that much, respect but not like)

 

I see Tyson getting Frazier out of there early

 

Tyson (slugger/counter puncher) vs Frazier (swarmer)

Power: Tyson
Speed: Even
Chin: Tyson
Footwork: Tyson but it's irrelevant lol
Stamina: Frazier
Offensive skill: Tyson
Defensive skill: Frazier
Ring IQ: Tyson
Technique: Frazier
Body shots: Frazier
Versatility: Tyson
Combinations: Tyson
Timing: Even
Accuracy: Frazier
Heart: Frazier

7-2-6 advantage Tyson.

Really ugly fight for Frazier. He's outgunned here and is less durable meeting a guy with a somewhat similar style at ring center to go to war. His advantages in stamina, swarming technique, heart, etc won't really be much of a factor if he can't make it past the 6th round. Frazier is a rhythm based fighter who becomes better as the fight goes on and Tyson starts off extremely fast and aggressive from round 1.

This would resemble 2 big horned sheep crashing into each other over and over. Lots of ugly shoving, clashed of heads, elbowing, vicious body shots, and furious combinations. Since Tyson used side to side head movement and Frazier bobbed and weaved, they'd end up smothering each other's punches a lot. In Frazier's defense, if Tyson were to trade hooks he might have the advantage because his hooks were a bit sharper, more accurate, and came out cracking with a whipping motion. Frazier is also a much better inside fighter and could frustrate Tyson up close.

Verdict: I think Tyson would eventually find a way to create space and land one of his cracking uppercuts. There is a very slim chance Frazier can drag Tyson into deep waters and drown him late, but the much safer and more logical conclusion is that Tyson stops Frazier before the mid way point after a grueling war, perhaps a TKO in round 5-6.

 

People are using the post prison Tyson to find "weaknesses" in him that would give Joe Frazier a chance to win. MT, post prison made it no secret that he didn't want to box, and was only there for the money. Tyson, in the 80s never showed a stamina problem, or a problem with his toughness. I think that if this fight could have happened, it would look a lot like MT - Marvis Frazier. Blink and you might miss it.

JF, from Jimmy Ellis through Muhammad Ali 1 was an excellent fighter, but he'd be giving up size, strength, speed, etc. to Mike Tyson. Even if the scenario played out that some on this board believe, JF gets beaten up early but comes back late to win...JF wouldn't get better as the rounds went on, he'd take a severe beating from MT, the type fighters don't recover from in one night and maybe not at all. If MT beat JF up early, it would just get worse as it continued.

 

You've obviously never watched Frazier fight if you think Tyson was better at everything.

 

It's idiocy to think I'd even respond if I had never seen Frazier fight, multiple times. I said what I said and gave my reasoning, you think otherwise.............where do we go from here?

Thank you