The chin and defensive skills of Joe Louis

Winning against sub-par, past prime, sometimes handpicked opponents. Outside of Liston in those two very dubious contests what very good or even great fighter prime Ali really beat? Which of those fighters do you think is qualitatively or stylistically comparable to Louis?
Louis was only two inches shorter than Ali with 4 inches less reach. Louis had better handspeed when throwing combinations, better accuracy, better instincts and was all around a greater technician than Ali was. All Ali has on him is movement, not much else. How exactly does Ali punish him? Enlighten me.

 

Nice post, I agree with what you said about determination but the proof is in the pudding: when Ali's speed began to dwindle he got hit way more, he didn't have any defensive technique to fall back on and he had to become more of a brawler in some of his fights or he had to lean on the ropes and wait for his opponent to punch himself out, tactics which many would consider 'unprofessional'. Technique isn't about being 'visually pleasing' its about defending yourself appropriately.

 

The pre-exile version of Ali was bigger, faster of hand and foot, smarter, more resourceful, and took a better punch. These are my opinions. You can take them for what they are worth to you.

 

Are you kidding me? We are having a discussion and have different opinions, and I should apologize to you? You should apologize to me for making this personal.

 

Every fighter has holes in their defense.

Let's say that we could take away half his title defenses, or half his fights against ranked contenders.

We would effectively take away half his knockdowns, but he would still have more title defenses, and more fights against ranked contenders, than almost any heavyweight in history.

Well Braddock was the champion, and Galento went on to become the #1 contender.

Whatever they looked like on film, they got as far as they did for a reason.

 

Getting put on your azz by a morbid obese Bar room brawler is a joke.....a even bigger joke is that that guy was ranked in the top.... the 0-0 MMA fighter looked like Ali in comparison to that Blob when he put Fury down.

 

Chuvalo was knocked down less than both. Elusive?

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I agree with that. Proper technique is what is left, what preserves you.

 

To Joe Louis.
I was being playful.
My comment was clearly a play on what Ali used to say to his opponents but I guess that went over your head.
I'm not sure why that should be taken as some kind of personal affront.

 

Mercer and Holyfield are basically 10/10 chins. They'd probably stay standing from every single hit that knocked Louis down. Louis cannot fairly be considered a 8.5 or 9. He just can't. It doesn't take anything away from his greatness though.

 

Didn't have faster hands. Ali had a quicker jab but didn't punch as quickly in combination - watch the tape.
What exactly do you mean by resourceful? 'Resourceful' to me means having more weapons/ways to win and that goes to Louis. Perhaps you have a different definition.
Ali didn't really start eating punches until after his exile. Pre-exile Ali got knocked half-way across the ring by 185lb Cooper, most people didn't learn that he could take punches until FOTC. I'm not all that convinced that he had a chin the entire time, I think it was an adaptation but thats my opinion.

 

When I say being aggressive, I literally mean that he was trying to finish his opponents, as opposed to taking a defensive stance, or retreating from them.

That does not in any way imply that he was careless.

By finishing his opponents quickly, he was shortening the odds, but he was doing it in a sophisticated low risk way.

If you measure any fighter against the ten best men they fought, then they are going to look bad.

Why not take an approach that you have no control over, such as delete the last half of his title defenses?

That still leaves him well in credit as a great.