Molten Lava Vitriol For Rocky Marciano

So, Marciano was also a blown up light heavy is what I get from this.

Until his old legs gave way and he looked like he was stomping in post holes. Plus, we're talking about a fighter who lost every third time he entered the ring. A stone cold journey man.

There are reports that I have a 12 inch dong but the record might state differently. Charles had settled into being a .500 fighter according to the record. Whatever his age said, Ezz was almost 100 fights into his career, and not against some handpicked salami vendors and cannoli eaters, but against the best both sides of the color line had to offer. He was used up goods.

Moore was able to feed on low tide leavings because the division was so depleted after the war. He was a blown up light heavy, plain and simple.

By this logic, boxing had the greatest athletic talent in the 60's and 70's and 80's before football and basketball took over. But... we have an Ali who couldn't beat a gal in a sprint, a Frazier who could press a weight a 15-year wouldn't struggle with, a Tyson who was a joke on the bball court and admitted he sucked at all other sports. Meh, that's weak sauce.

Lennox Lewis (Jamaica), Anthony Joshua (Nigeria), Wlad and Vit (Former Ukraine), Zhang (Red China), Chagaev (Uzbekistan), Fury (Gypsy), Maskaev (Mother Russia), Usyk (Former Ukraine) ... There hasn't even been an American lineal heavyweight champ for 23 years.

Wait, he was a SCHOLAR? Please tell me more.

He wasn't a horrible guy, he wasn't an angel. He was human. And he was a savage, so he did the occasional savage things.

I got a goat to tend to... Cheers!!!

 

But Charles was rated #1, so why would he not get the shot and why would Marciano not fight him?

Again, you yourself posted source saying that Al Weil tried to make the fight and Valdez got rough with him. Maybe they low-balled him, but that would be prohibitive of doing future business, right? Seems like maybe they wanted Valdez.

 

Sure there must be some cases of racial and ethnic prejudice against white boxers in this forum, but I think that is not the rule.
There are plenty of cases of white boxers who are widely appreciated.
Guys like Schmelling, Baer, Dempsey, Chuvalo, Cooper, Ingo, etc. seem to be well liked over here. Gerry Quarry is kind of "most popular" in the forum. And let's not even start on the Klitschkos' and Fury's following.

However I agree that in the case of Marciano some dislike towards him probably has an ethnic bias linking Marciano's italian heritage to the idea of a maffia's controlled fighter even if there is no proof of that.

 

Again, I said it was one of five reasons, and it is one. I was just arguing with some clown over the past couple of days because he was saying that Joe Louis--Joe Louis!--was not that great because he didn't fight enough black fighters. I pointed out that he fought two fights with Walcott, who was his only legit black #1 contender outside of Elmer Ray who only held if for a quarter, and he just would not understand the point. He simply felt black fighters are better regardless of what they achieve or don't.

The racists are on here, and a LOT of these kinds of idiot quacks come out for Marciano.

But it is one of five reasons.

 

Every fighter has cans on his record. Deontay Wilder has people calling him the hardest puncher of all time when all he ever beat was cans.

Marciano had 16-19 good fights for his stage of development at the moment, depending on how liberal you want to get.

WalcottX2
CharlesX2
Moore
Louis
LaStarzaX2
Layne
Cockell
Savold
Mathews

Additionally, the following were one-time contenders.
Phil Muscato
John Shkor
Bernie Reynolds
Freddie Beshore

I also find the following to be good additions

Vingo- good young prospect at a similar level, and one of Maricano's toughest
Lowry X2- A journeyman I respect, and one of Maricano's toughest.

But hell, take them off, and just give him the first 16, and it is still an an excellent career.

 

Fair enough, although there is always some space left for discussion.
For example, in the case of Louis, sure he is an ATG and gave Marciano a good fight, but he was quite washed up by the time they fought.
Of course that is not unique to Marciano's record. Holmes vs Ali or Holyfield vs Holmes are good example where the new big guy fought an ATG who had very little fuel left in the tank.
Again that can't be hold against Marciano. The man fought what was available at the time and made the best of it.

 

He wasn't washed up at all. He was on a seven fight win steak, mostly against good fighters like Savold, Bivins, Brion and Agramonte. He wan't what he once was--no argument there. But he was still atop contender

 

I don't think people voting for Lennox over Marciano or thinking a guy like Tua or Foreman could KO him is "molten lava hate". I think people are just used to hearing "49-0, would have beaten everyone" so much that when forum goers have unindoctrinated their thinking it is a shock to the some people.

Marciano did not actually beat LaStarza in their first fight (referee awarded an extra point to Marciano but the judges had it a draw, I bet no connections were at play here!) and never beat an all time great in their prime. 6 defenses over 3 years and then retiring does not make an all time destroyer for me. If Walcott and Charles both gave him problems, post prime, after battles with eachother and Louis then it isn't ridiculous to conjecture that in prime they could have beaten him.

That doesn't even really speak to the stature, defensive, and style limitations he would have had against a lot of guys who came after. Even 20 years later the game had changed among the big men so much. I'm not sure Rocky makes it to a title fight in 1972.

His whiteness is not counted against him these days, it's his relative lack of size, times he got hit a lot, and thin resume for an all time great of his notoriety.

You gotta see the Eddie Murphy bit, Italians and Rocky. That's how people have been acting about Marciano. The aura of invincibility is not true and removing Marciano from his time period even 5 years on either side puts him in some trouble--at least not 49-0 but probably still an all timer.

 

Rocky hate is racist boxing dogma. He is a unique boxer in history, 2 handed fight ending power, unparalleled stamina, granite chin, unique approach to defence and getting on the inside.

Yes, it is possible he would struggle against modern heavyweights, but there is no way of knowing. There is a chance, given he fought in a great era of boxing, that he would wipe out most of the post 2000 heavyweights quite easily, most of whom are a bunch of fat, overrated slobs.

 

Valdes was rated number 1 in1953 and 1954 he didnt get a shot.I never posted that Weill tried to make a Rocky v Valdes fight.

 

Look, I am old and white, but I don't lie to myself. Rocky's career was short, and filled with old, fat, small men.

 

'Yes, it is possible he would struggle against modern heavyweights', Sir, wake up to reality. RM would loose to all ranked heavyweights post 1970.

 

You didn't read anything huh.

Racist dogma? C'mon, this is a sport with a lot of great fighters from all nationalities and Rocky isn't cutting the mustard at the top end of the greatest heavyweights of all time. It sounds more like senile denial from one end than racist dogma from another.

 

WalcottX2 - An aged journeyman taking advantage of a depleted division in his final two fights
CharlesX2 -A blown up lightheavy reduced to being a .500 fighter after a bruising 100 fight career
Moore - Another blown up lightheavy, very advanced in years. May be Marciano's best win.
Louis - The Berbick version of Ali was more virile than Louis at this stage.
LaStarzaX2 - A nobody whose name we only know because of Marciano.
Layne - A tough sloppy face first guy who had neither quicks nor strength and wasn't fond of training.
Cockell- Yeah, we saw what he looked like.
Savold - Another guy in his final fight who was diminished to being beaten by the likes of Woodcock and Muscato
Mathews - A 5-11 179 pound guy who would go onto lose to Cockell three times. Jack Hurley did his job well. And nice double left hook by Marciano to extinguish the affair.