Sonny Liston vs the following Louis foes

Baer didn't have devastating power in his left hand.
Machen ran like a thief from Liston and still lost. Galento was much too slow and static a target to do much with Sonny and if Buddy Baer beats you, Liston might send you into retirement. Schmeling wasnt particularly scientific,he was a patient counterpuncher.I doubt he could teach either Machen or Folley anything about the fine arts of defence.and they couldnt beat Liston.Stop trolling.lol

 

Baer quite likely takes one look at Liston and freezes, as he did with Louis.

 

Baer didn't have half of Williams skills nor defense. He also had no jab, and couldn't throw an uppercut without falling half way to the floor.

Sharkey was not similar to Machen in the slightest, and couldn't go the distance against a shot Dempsey.

Not even addressing your non-sensical Galento comparison.

 

Betas them all, although Galento might moida da bum.....after the fight.

 

Let's not overdo it. Liston should be favored but Williams is a tier below Max in both stamina and durability which are both huge when you are a limited slugger.
It's why Max was way more successful.
I don't see how Sharkey is worse than Machen here. At his best he was better than Machen considering his great wins over Loughran, Wills and Godfrey.

 

He also lost to Loughran

 

I'm not sold in durability. Williams only prime KO loss was to Liston. I'm not sold Baer does any better taking the punches Williams did.

Williams was also FIVE tiers above Baer in terms of skill, defense, and jab.
I'm not sold he does any better than Williams does against Liston.

Explains why he had way more losses in his prime in an inferior era.

I never said Sharkey wasn't better. I said they weren't similar which they aren't. You know who else was better than Machen? Patterson, and (arguably given their results) Folley. How'd that work out for them against Liston?

 

I would not be shocked if Liston dropped a fight to one of them to be honest.

You also have to ask what time frame these fights are taking place over, because Liston did not prove himself in the longevity sphere.

 

I would favor him against all of those men.

 

What's there to argue about durability? Max was just way harder to stop.
I don't see the skill gulf you're seeing between them. I also like Williams combos and and hand speed more than Baer's but that's the extend of it.
Weaker era? There were a butt load more active fighters during the 1930s than the late 1950s-1960s.
I remember both Sharkey and Louis remarking at how shallow the pool was in the mid 50s.

Patterson used the peekaboo which is a mainly come forward counter punching style. Sharkey had better defensive movement than Floyd and so did Machen.
I don't see why Sharkey couldn't frustrate Sonny on his best night but Liston's wins over Folley and Machen do point to him being able to overcome more skilled fighters.
However we need to take into account Sharkey's own ability against people with more power than himself such as Wills, Schmeling and Godfrey.

 

Liston TKO6 Baer
Liston TKO10 Schmeling
Liston KO5 Sharkey
Liston TKO3 Galento
Liston KO4 B.Baer
Liston KO3 Simon
Liston KO7 McCoy
Liston KO1 Mann

 

He did, but he holds the ko victory when they were both near their best.

 

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree. There's literally nobody who Baer faced aside from Louis I'd be extremely confident in knocking out Williams. I also highly doubt Baer does better if at all against Liston than Williams.

Williams punch output and variety in the Liston bouts, as relatively brief as they were were better than anything Max showed in his entire career. As was his defense. Williams, as I noted in another post, slipped a Liston jab, and in the blink of an eye, got inside and unleased a combo to the body and head of Liston. Baer couldn't do that in a million years. He also couldn't throw an uppercut without falling halfway to the floor, and had no jab to speak of.

What the **** does this have to do with anything? Their may have been more, but they weren't necessarily better. The fact that guys like Galento and Baer who telegraphed their punches heavily.

1. Williams was nowhere near his prime in the mid 50s, nor was he even active. He was out for the majority of the mid-50s due to being inducted in the military. His prime was from '59 to his shooting.

2. Guys from older eras ALWAYS say later divisions have regressed. Tunney said the same thing about the 70s. That they weren't as good as the fighters from his era. Would you agree there?

I didn't compare Patterson to Sharkey. I merely stated just because Machen went the distance with Liston (by running all night and not even trying to win) doesn't mean Sharkey will.

They were not more skilled than himself. Liston didn't win those fights because of his power. He won them because he was the more skilled and better fighter.

None of whom were remotely similar to Liston stylewise, nor had his power.