Poll - Who would win? Sonny Liston 1959 or Oleksandr Usyk 2022?

I am a big fan of Usyk. And I would give him a 50-
50 shot vs many past greats.

but are people really comparing heavyweight Usyk to 1964 Ali? 1864 Ali is by far the fastest moving heavyweight of all time. Liston was frustrated by how fast he moved. And Liston landed big body punches to slow him down but to no avail as Ali absorbed body punches better than anyone.

Usyk’s vulnerability to body shots is overstated but he does seem to show massive visible discomfort when people go to his body.

a 35 year old Usyk is an 8 out of 10 in speed. Ali is a 10 out of 10. Liston would land a lot more on Usyk than he did vs Ali because there is an enormous speed difference. Huge.

anyway I am not writing Usyk off, it’s a 60-40
Fight in favour of Liston. I think Liston vs southpaws in an unknown territory which is why it would be silly to write him off. I do think Usyk could win several rounds but ultimately Listons brutal body attack might be a bit too much. And unlike Joshua, it’s hard to deter Liston whereas Joshua becomes hesitant when nailed.

 

Liston sparred with southpaws in the gym, as well as every other style to acclimitize himself which made for a very versatile fighter. He did well against Zech (who I concede wasn't even the level below Usyk) at 36 years minimum (40 to 43 according to doctor's estimates), and being considerably rusty and past-prime.

After the fight, Pollino when asked if Liston was going to fight Williams again said it would be pointless (Not only because Liston already fought him twice, but because of Williams' vast decline post-shooting, a win over him wouldn't mean as much as it did 6-7 years ago when they actually fought), and they said they wanted Mildenberger but he wouldn't go near them.

 

Good post. I agree with everything you said and I favour Liston too. However, quality southpaws like Usyk simply didn’t exist back then and hence, I think a lot of past heavyweights would find it tough to deal with the footwork and angles of Usyk.

while I think Liston beats Usyk, I can see Usyk being a nightmare for Holmes. He would take away the effectiveness of Holmes’s jab and Larry would struggle to read the left cross coming through. Without extreme power and ability to work the body, I can see Larry really struggling. Holmes was ask stopped twice as an amateur by a southpaw which would further make it hard for him.

 

And yet, of Ali and Usyk, who was officially knocked down by body shot?

 

Usyk right? I don’t believe Ali ever went down to a body shot. Usyk did in the amateurs. And while the Dubois one was a low blow, he does have a weakness there.

that being said, Usyk is a special fighter. It would take a special fighter like Liston, Tyson, Frazier etc. to take advantage of that.

 

Wepner, as I recall.

 

He was standing on his foot lol

 

That's the story, but its still an official knockdown.

 

This is the definition of intellectual dishonesty.

 

Yeah and so is Roldan's over Hagler.

Citing either as notable or meaningful is quite frankly pitiful and desperate.

 

No, it isn't. Ali was visibly hurt by the punch, and stepping on a foot does not cause a fighter to hit the canvas.

 

Again, rubbish.

 

You have to be trolling t this point. Stepping on someone's foot can CLEARLY cause someone to hit the canvas if they're off balance, even if a punch isn't thrown.

It's clear as day Ali was off balance, not hurt when hit with the punch, and clearly unhurt upon getting up.

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It’s an OLD boxing trick - stepping on the foot, thereby compromising your opponents ability to adjust his balance as and when and then hitting him at the same time - thus why it is an ILLEGAL practice.

Per the vision Ali wasn’t hurt at all and embedded within much needed context, Ali took far harder and more hellacious shots to the body without ever falling from same.