Sonny Liston vs the following Louis foes

Franklin died from head trauma during a match in 1944.
I'm not going to compare Conn to Williams. Different breed of fighter.
Pastor took Franklin's best shots and remained standing to win the fight.
He went the distance and then 11 rounds against prime Louis.
Williams is not the man I'd favor over Bob.

 

Liston TKO 7 Baer, but if the killer instinct and prepared Bear has a 50/50 chance, he is level above Williams and Dejohn
Liston SD with Schmelling then beats him by 5th round KO in the rematch
Liston KO 4 Sharkey, easy night for Sonny
Liston KO 4 Galento in an exciting brawl similar to Dempsy v Firpo
Liston KO 3 Simmon
Liston KO 5 McCoy
Liston KO 1 Mann

BTW Liston v Uzcudun would be an interesting fight to see.

 

The fact that Baer and Galento were "countered with 3 punches for every punch they threw" and still had Louis on the canvas doesn't make me at all confident that Foreman, a superior puncher than Baer and Galento in every category doesn't have more success than those two.

This is completely untrue. Quarry, Ali, etc were all decent punchers. O'holloran was listed as one of the hardest punchers Foreman ever fought.

Galento literally dropped his right hand, every time he threw the left. Norton would laughable counter him.

What's his record against those three?

He was considerably past his prime by the time he fought *Earnie.

Even that version of Patterson would run through the 30s with the exception of Louis.

But this thread is matching a PRIME Liston, not some uber green version.

Liston was better than Sonny Boy Walker, Al McCoy, Ford, Farr, Godoy, Carattoli, Risko, Carnera, Neusel, Lavinskey, Poreda, Hamas, Sekyra, Schaff, Sharkey, Stone, Stribling, Delaney, Mctigue, Smith, Pastor, Novelbloom, Nestle (no not the candy company), Lasky, etc. I could add more names, but I don't have the time to go through their literally countless losses.

Untrue. He'd been ranked multiple times. As a matter of fact, he was just rated in '58 prior to facing Liston but dropped off, after losing to Moore and Johnson back to back.

I wouldn't say it was a poor attempt. He hit Ali with several damaging body shots. Unfortunately, nobody took it to the body like Ali as we know now.

Liston's injury was confirmed by multiple sources. https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-honolulu-advertiser/50479106/ https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer/98505474/

Well he didn't beat Marshall in that particular fight so that's not true.

Williams broke Liston's nose, and nearly knocked him out by his own admission. If you think no heart is required to come back from that, you're simply trolling.

This is just ridiculous. Liston doesn't get credit, for fighting through serious adversity against Williams, Valdez, Marshall, etc, but his loss when he was 34 years old at the minimum is held against him? Forgive me for thinking you have an agenda here.

Also, Liston didn't give up against the other elite boxer he faced, the number 2 contender Machen, and the best slickster of the era, not named Ali. He made excellent adjustments, outboxed the boxer, and went the distance with zero issue.

Schmeling has the bigger win between the two, but Patterson is superior in nearly every other metric.

 

Doesn't change the stats does it? Pastor was stopped by Billy Conn174lbs and floored 6 times by Turkey Thompson 180lbs.
Pastor went the distance with Louis by just running away and surviving, he didn't try to win that fight it was called," Bob's Bicycle Act".

Pastor v Conn
Pastor was counted out after taking a left hook to the body. He was also knocked down for a 7-count at the bell in the 9th and for a 9-count in round 12.

 

I think that we tend to overrate Liston's heart, he quits in 2 fights and tries at least two times to blind his opponents, so no one could tell me that he has a heart of champions like Marciano or Frazier.
Also, his stamina isn't great because he never scored rounds KO, if you go more than 7,8 rounds with him you win or lose the decision.
Still does not mean that he won't beat some of the guys Louis did, but he won't do it easier, and even if he does, it won't be pretty.

 

Welcome back, Serbian loudmouth.

 

Who?
I am Rocky ha haaa.

 

But still they are better than Marshall.
Comparing Godoy,McCoy and Farr with Marshall is nonsense.

 

Some weaknesses of fighters stays even when they got older.
Marty saw Liston after their fight, and he said that he is more confident and developed fighter but still kept some weaknesses.

 

You have proof that he intentionally tried to blind 2 opponents?

Liston stopped Wepner 9rds.

The fact that Liston stopped so many fighters before the late stages of his fights is a negative for him?

Liston's stamina was fine.

 

I wasn't there but two men won't say something like that for no reason.
If one said that okay, but two did, which is you know difficult to disprove.

 

Angelo Dundee did not agree. I would not accuse anyone of dirty work unless I had pretty decent reason to do so.

 

Stopped him, not knocked him out, and Wepner was prone to cuts, even Jerry beat him easier than Liston.
Again Liston never stopped or knocked anyone late.

Shows that he has stamina problems in later rounds because he proved he can't carry his power in later rounds.
Foreman held most 1st round KOs but still had stamina problems when he faced someone good, the same goes for Liston.

His stamina was okay but not very good for a hw fighter, same goes for Tyson.

 

Angelo did not, but Ali did, and Scrap Johnson and Machen did too.
Machen even criticized Ali for complaining and instead kept his mouth shut.

 

Louis was champion when he fought them. Liston was a novice when he lost to Marshall and he amply avenged that decision ,twice.