Am I the only one that thinks Cus being alive wouldn't have changed anything in terms of Tyson?

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...ato-lived-to-a-very-old-age-110-years.683672/

 

No, I have heard the opinion expressed from time to time over the years.

 

I think Cus and Jim Jacob’s death did have an effect on Tyson and them living would have probably improved his career. That said I do think Tyson would have had issues keeping up the tempo by his mid and later 20’s, would have struggled with some of the big names going into the 90s (and would have beaten some too). Going off the rails is another story and we’ll never no. Certainly he always had issues, though I’m not sure if in the 80s they were any worse, or even as bad as his contemporaries. It’s

My thoughts it’s sort of a middle were Tyson has his issues, maybe he gets into a brawl at a party and makes the news, maybe he’s a bit slower after so many title defenses by the 90s. But he wouldn’t be so prone to flying off the handle and able to back bounce. I think it was less that Cus and Jacob’s had magical powers to complete Tyson and more that Tyson felt they cared about him.

 

From what I’ve seen/read, even while he was still alive, Cus was already beginning to lose his grip and influence on Mike.

Mike exercised extraordinary discipline and dedication - not sure why people think that can last forever, all surrounding circumstances aside.

No disrespect to Mike, but to NEED certain people with you and on your back 24/7 isn’t a great reflection on an individual’s own intellectual and emotional maturity - and they are significant, self contained traits of many an ATG.

Many fighters did well and continued to do so without anywhere near the level of support that Mike enjoyed from the start and for a good while after his career began - but those fighters are never afforded so many “what ifs”.

The knowledge and executions were already well embedded in Mike’s psyche before Cus passed anyway.

Mike speaks verbatim re his early career instruction, and now, in his role as a trainer. he is also imparting the same knowledge that he was well advantaged by.

 

No one was going to control Mike at a certain point once the money started flowing. And there was only so long even the best instruction and training could cover up Mike's deficiencies as a heavyweight.

 

This sounds about right to me.

 

This.

Mike wasn’t going to live a monk-like existence rooming in Cus’ house in the middle of nowhere. He was young, rich and famous and wanted to live like it … he wanted to roam the nights in NYC as a celebrity.

Cus was a father figure to Mike, and when kids grow up they rebel. He was going to turn away from whatever authority figure was in his life — manager, trainer and guru alike.

He also got married, and he fired Kevin Rooney for speaking about his marriage after warning him to stay in his lane. Cus wasn’t going to get in the way of ‘young love,’ no matter how messed up the relationship was.

This is a guy who had a gun put to his head by (nut-case) Teddy Atlas for groping Teddy’s niece when he was young. This is a guy who tried to kill himself by ramming a car full-speed into an embankment because he was unraveling. A guy who got into a street fight with Mitch Green (lucky no one pulled a gun and ended him, which can easily happen in those kind of situations). A guy who got imprisoned for ****. A guy who probably did 1,000 other things we’ll never even know about. He wasn’t going to be tamed by Cus’ Svengali act forever.

Nah, it really wasn’t going to change anything. Just another lawsuit probably when he dropped Cus for Don King.

 

If Cus would have stayed alive for at least another healthy 8 years then Cus would have had Tyson under his thumb.

Not in the sense of Mike fulfilling his worldly desires but within the training regimen Cus would have had some grasp.

For Example - Jab slip that he showed against Donnie Long was eventually long forgotten after Cus.

I could go on but here is an obvious one - No enswell in the corner when he lost to BD.

These kind of faults would have never taken place under Cus.

To answer the threads question - If Tyson had a few more years of Cus molding him then your talking about a possible alternate reality where Tyson...

 

I think this is the only way to look at it, once out of his teenage years no one was going to control Mike. And a con man like Don King could see Tyson coming from a mile away with his bag of tricks .

 

D'Amato spent an awful lot of time & money covering up Tyson's various skirmishes with the law both before & after he turned pro. He was always going to implode.

 

Let's not overlook the fact that Mike was a tiny heavyweight battling the ever bigger heavies of the late 80's and 90's. Sooner or later, no amount of boxing programming was going to overcome that fact. Big dudes with good fundamentals (especially inside) and a long jab were going to always trouble him.

 

The poor overall quality of the 1980’s helped.

 

The 80's was better than the 70's or 30's or 50's or most of those previous Golden Eras. Athlete for athlete, boxer for boxer.... Cocaine was a problem, I'll give you that.