Do you think Tunney deserves the criticism for not fighting Wills and Godfrey?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Feb 18, 2024.


  1. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I believe that RING magazine more or less were the ratings back then. I can only find yearly ratings, but it appears that his #1 contender in 1927 was Dempsey, who he faced, and in 1928 was Young Stribling, who he did not. So apparently, it was Stribling who he left on table.

    Wills lost two in a row to Sharkey and Uzcuden in '26 and '27, so it is hard to make the case for him. After beating Uzcuden in '28, Godrey lost to Risko and Gaines later in the year...I guess you could make that case that there was a narrow window when the fight would have been very plausible, but again, Stribling appears to have been the outstanding contender, and it is hard to make the case that at this point in his career, Godfrey was some kind of inevitable opponent.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that if anyone was cheated by Tunney, it was Stribling, but even this is a hard sell, because Tunney had faced his #1 in Dempsey and had a right to a voluntary.

    I have no dog in this fight as I don't like color line guys, and I sure wish old Harry would have got a shot against somebody, but it is hard for me to see exactly who Tunney wronged, here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2024
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    He was trying to get the Wills fight at one point and Wills turned him down thinking, rightfully, that he had already done enough to deserve a shot at Slacker Jack.
     
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  3. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Interesting. Did not know about this...

    https://www.thefightcity.com/dempsey-vs-wills-boxing-history-jack-dempsey-harry-wills/

    Additionally, Wills likely hurt his cause by refusing to face Gene Tunney in a lucrative title eliminator that could have put even more pressure on those who could have made the fight happen. Reportedly Tunney was open to the match, but Wills turned it down. In the end, one thing is clear: both Wills and Dempsey were willing to face off in the ring. It’s easy to cast Dempsey as the villain here and think it was all too easy for him to avoid the match, but the evidence – including his signature – proves otherwise.
     
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  4. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The man fought Harry Greb four times. I give him a lot of slack.
     
  5. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    For reasons already outlined, no. Most people like to nominate Holmes but Tunney is my pick for the most under-rated Heavyweight champion of all-time.
     
  6. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don't mean to derail my own thread, but how is Holmes overrated? Seems to me there is a Holmes fetish going about where people put him in the top 3, occasionally even #1, baed on perceived H2H qualities, when there is just no justification for doing so based on competition.

    By the way, nice tribute to Ney, although I am more of a Davout guy myself.
     
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  7. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think it was five!
     
  8. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sorry, to clarify I was saying people usually call Holmes the most under-rated champion but I’d go Tunney.

    A man after my own heart, I see - Davout, Lannes, Ney, Suchet…it’s all gravy you can’t go wrong with any of those fellows.
     
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  9. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No Dempsey deserves the criticism for avoiding Wills. He did not fight for the title for 3 years and withdrew from an agreed upon title shot with Wills in 1924.

    Tunney on the other hand became champ right before Wills lost to Sharkey and Uzcudin. Tunneys title defenses were also determined by eliminators and tournaments. He didn't choose his opponents and wasn't avoiding anyone. If Tom Heeney seems like a random final opponent for Tunney today thats just how the cookie crumbled.

    I don't think Godfrey was in the mix at this point. I also don't think "mandatorys" and "voluntarys" existed yet.

    The idea Tunney had a short resume is based on wanting to see him fight 30s stars who were around when Tunney retired. In 1928 Tunney and the public didn't have our perspective. Tunney at this point was probably considered both the HW and LHW GOAT. He had a list of victories that included Dempsey, Gibbons, Greb, Loughran, Delaney, Carpentier, Heeney, Battling Levinsky, Ermino Spalla, Weinart and Risko. He had also beaten every fighter he'd ever stepped in the ring with.
     
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I honestly don't know enough behind the scenes historically as to why they never fought but I do feel that Wills was already getting old by 22 - 24 and Godfrey seemed to have a very spotty career ... knowing the sport there are a dozen reasons ...
     
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  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    His legacy is fine right where it is
     
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  12. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Harry Wills was 37 and shot when Tunney won the title.

    From the point Tunney won the title, Wills lost his next 3 fights.

    The winner of the Dempsey vs Sharkey fight was always going to be the most deserving challenger for Tunney's first defence.

    Tunney defended vs Heeney in July 1928. In February 1928 the ring magazine ranked Heeney at #4 and Godfrey at #9.

    In his only fight between Feb and July 1928, Heeney beat #7 ranked Jack Delaney, whereas Godfrey lost to Johnny Risko and the unranked Larry Gains. Heeney was a far more credible challenger than Godfrey.

    Tunney clearly doesn't warrant any criticism for not defending vs Wills or Godfrey.
     
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