the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Tip of the cap to the creator of my favorite thread on the entire Internet.

 

I wonder whether it was even stickied yet last he saw it? It was only a few months later that he stopped posting/lurking.

 

Truly great poster he was.

 

I believe he posted as lora for a while, but has disappeared into the aether once more.

 

Miguel de Oliveira vs Koichi Wajima 1 1973

Round 1: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 2: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 3: Oliveira 10 - 9 almost KD
Round 4: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 5: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 6: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 7: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 8: Wajima 10 - 9 (close)
Round 9: Oliveira 10 - 9 (close)
Round 10: Wajima 10 - 9 (close)
Round 11: Oliveira 10 - 9 (close)
Round 12: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 13: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 14: Oliveria 10 - 9
Round 15: Wajima 10 - 9 (close)

Tough to score but I had it for Wajima 143 x 142. I gave the tiebreaker 15th round and the fight to Wajima but could see an argument for either.

 

Holmes-Norton. Not quite as close as they say, Holmes won it, but those mid-round body shots definitely brought Norton into the contest.

 

Miguel de Oliveira vs Koichi Wajima 2 1974

Round 1: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 2: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 3: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 4: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 5: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 6: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 7: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 8: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 9: Wajima 10 - 9
Round 10: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 11: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 12: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 13: Oliveira 10 - 9 (close)
Round 14: Oliveira 10 - 9
Round 15: Wajima 10 - 9

Wajima pulls it out in the 15th round again. 143 x 142 Wajima. Wajima won the series often by edging out close rounds with activity. Both men's head movement was great and Oliveira's guard was tight, landing cleanly on him looked tough.

 

Roberto Duran vs Esteban de Jesus 2 1974

Round 1: De Jesus 10 - 8
Round 2: De Jesus 10 - 9
Round 3: Duran 10 - 9
Round 4: Duran 10 - 9
Round 5: Duran 10 - 9
Round 6: Duran 10 - 9
Round 7: Duran 10 - 8
Round 8: Duran 10 - 9
Round 9: Duran 10 - 9
Round 10: Duran 10 - 9
Round 11: Duran by KO.

 

RJ, I scored both these fights somewhat recently. And although our scores differ, it was a toughie to score on one's preferences. This is what I wrote:

Koichi Wajima v Miguel DeOliviera I (jr. middleweight title)

The clarity of this bout was very good. I recall this fight back in the day and there was a big clamor that it was a robbery. Although I had it for DeOliviera, it was a tough fight because Wajima was wild and unorthodox but never stopped throwing punches. He was like Gene Fullmer in the sense that he didn't care where it landed. Meanwhile, DeOliviera was compact, neat and precise but didn't throw anywhere near the volume of punches that Wajima did. So, tough fight to score on volume vs. clean. Scored on the 5 point must system.

Round 1: 5-4 Wajima
Round 2: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 3: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 4: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 5: 5-4 Wajima
Round 6: 5-4 Wajima
Round 7: 5-5- Even
Round 8: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 9: 5-4 Wajima
Round 10: 5-5- Even
Round 11: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 12: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 13: 5-4 Wajima
Round 14: 5-4 DeOliviera
Round 15: 5-4 DeOliviera

Total: 70-67 DeOliviera

Actual scores by all three Japanese officials were 73-71 for Wajima and two scores of 71-71 for a draw. Like I said, tough one and I'm sure everyone may have some wildly divergent scores depending on how you see this unfold.

Koichi Wajima v Miguel DeOliviera II (jr. middleweight title)

Round 1: 5-4 Wajima
Round 2: 5-4 DeO
Round 3: 5-4 DeO
Round 4: 5-5 Even
Round 5: 5-4 DeO
Round 6: 5-4 DeO
Round 7: 5-4 Wajima
Round 8: 5-4 Wajima
Round 9: 5-4 DeO
Round 10: 5-4 DeO
Round 11: 5-4 DeO
Round 12: 5-4 DeO
Round 13: 5-4 DeO
Round 14: 5-4 Wajima
Round 15: 5-4 Wajima

Total: 70-66 DeOliviera (actual scores: 73-73 and two scores of 73-70 and 74-71 both for Wajima for a majority win)

To begin, I remember when this fight took place after their previous draw (the draw was panned by the magazines at the time as a hometown decision). This decision was announced and the mags just ran with it - probably from a Japanese correspondent - and that was that. Well I just went along too all those years thinking Wajima (Mr. Rematch) came back with a better plan. Well, I don't think he did. This was like the Angel Espada-Clyde Gray fight where one receives a report from a hometown scribe and thinks it was as he said. Well. I thought Gray won that fight and I think DeOliviera won this fight too. DeO was a sharp boxer, who controlled the center of the ring well, but was very strong on the inside as well and didn't mind whacking the body in close. I think he could have done with a sharper jab though, as it seemed his jabs were more in the line with taps. As for Wajima, he was as unorthodox and as awkward a fighter as one could see. His plan was to grill DeO against the ropes, which he did to an extent as one could see the profound rope burns developing on the back of DeO. However, he was so wild, many of them were picked off by DeO's tight defense, I will say one thing about the Wajima attack though. Around the 7th or 8th I noticed he had great success at tagging DeO with a left hook. Despite DeO's tight guard this got through every time. However, I never really saw this exploited after that. Whether the Wajima corner didn't notice it or what.

Regarding the decision, when you have 3 Japanese officials scoring the bout, your chances are slim without a KO or at least a couple of knockdowns strewn in. To be clear, in rounds, they scored this 5-2-8, 4-1-10 and 2-2-11 respectively. My God, have you ever seen such fence-sitting in your life? Those Even rounds were simply protecting their fighter.

 

Scoring that many rounds even is hilarious, I had no idea that those were the official scorecards. A lot of rounds were tough to score but I try to not give any even rounds if possible, which probably gives Wajima the advantage on my card as close rounds would often go to him based on his activity. I can definitely understand someone having it for De Oliveira though.

 

Go over to the general forum … there’s a generation who think all close rounds should be scored even and they want more even rounds in scoring.

(IIRC, one of the judges in Leonard-Duran I had 10 of 15 rounds even.)

Should send them to 1970 Argentina where everything is a draw, haha.

 

Emile Griffith v Holly Mims (NY rounds scoring)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Griffith
Round 3: Mims
Round 4: Griffith
Round 5: Griffith
Round 6: Griffith
Round 7: Griffith
Round 8: Mims
Round 9: Griffith
Round 10: Even

Total: 6-2-2 Griffith (actual scores: 6-3-1, 6-3-1 and 8-1-1 all for Griffith)

Outside of the poor film quality, I loved this fight. Man, that Mims was such a great old pro. Constantly working and an explosive counter-puncher who like to work the body. However, this was a prime Griffith who was the reigning welterweight champ with designs on middleweight. His combos were crisp and he proved he could infight with a middleweight. The fight was fought almost entirely in the pocket and the crowd seemed to enjoy it. I know I did.

 

Everything still is, down there!

Side question: should Argentina and Chile, and South Africa and New Zealand for that matter, also be called "down under"? lmao

 

I loved TNF because they were low budget but not too much low budget.

There was a time when my brother had neutropenia- a disease that is similar to leukemia and very dangerous as well-so he spent most of his days at home for fear that he would get somehow injured and bleed out which could cause him to die. Thank God he was cured.

I was forced to watch baseball with him, his favorite sport, every night. But on occasional Saturdays and Sundays (remember, ASPN also carried bouts live on Sundays, on a TNF level out here in the Southwest) and every Tuesday and Thursday, he was forced to watch boxing with me.

Thanks to that he got to know Oscar De la Hoya, Roy Jones jr, Roberto Duran, George Foreman and Johnny Tapia.

 

Ricardo Lopez v Rosendo Alvarez I (Strawweight unification)

Round 1: 10-9 Lopez
Round 2: 10-8 Alvarez (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Lopez
Round 5: 10-9 Lopez
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-8 Lopez (1 point deducted from Alvarez for a butt that sliced Lopez)
The doctor stops the fight between rounds and goes to the scorecards

Total through 7 completed rounds: 68-65 Lopez (actual scores: 67-64 Lopez, 68-64 Alvarez and a 66-66 Even for a technical draw)

This bout pitted the hard-punching Alvarez against the sharp-boxing Lopez, and I was more impressed with Lopez' busier hands than Alvarez' 'waiting in the weeds' for a counter approach. But never did it appear that anything was set in stone after the way Alvarez dropped Lopez in the 2nd round. The bout was inconclusive with the way it ended. There was some tactical machinations at work as Lopez' corner were trying to get the doctor to stop it - as I understand - so it would go to the scorecards. On his part, Lopez was ready to go for the 8th before it was stopped. The scoring was mixed and odd. I agree with the first card at 67-64 for Lopez, but the second card was odd. Jimmy Lennon Jr. called it as 68-63 but boxrec has it as 68-64 for Alvarez. Regardless, I don't think he did enough to warrant that kind of a score until I realized the dissenting judge was from Puerto Rico, which was a WBA bastion. And this was a unification bout, so connect the dots along party lines. Also, on the scorecards on boxrec, it shows Dalby Shirley, who had it 66-66, but did not deduct the point in the 7th round per referee Arthur Mercante's instruction. If he had - and I don't know why he wasn't taken to task or instructed to do so by ringside commissioners - Lopez would have won on a split. My musings on an interesting fight that was still unfolding.