Fantasy Fight: Joe Louis vs Sonny Liston

Amateur career
Martin was the 1960 Chicago and Intercity Golden Gloves 160-pound champion and the 1961 160-pound Intercity Golden Gloves Champion (alternate). He also was the United States National AAU 165-pound champion in 1960 and 1961.

BTW he was 175 when he started pro boxing thank me later.

Marciano amateur record:
Rocky fought 12 amateur fights. Unlike most fighters, who fight in local clubs and gyms as they learn their craft, he had no one to guide him other than his childhood friend Allie Columbo. As a result, his approach to amateur fighting was reckless; entering in various tournaments, always against more experienced fighters. The result was a less than perfect record of 8 wins and 4 losses.

However, even so he advanced to the finals in the Amateur Athletic Union (AAU) Championship Tournament in Portland Oregon, won the Golden Gloves Tournament in Lowell to represent New England in the All-East Championship Tournament, and won the AAU Heavyweight Championship during the Olympic Trials held in Boston in 1948. Damage to his hand prevented him having a chance at fighting in the Olympics.

You are comparing bulked small LHW with true HW.

 

Yeah like you did in the thread I checked about Marciano vs Cleveland Williams where you were wiped, hahaaaa.

 

Tbh, I don’t recall a cake quote but if it’s from Coming to America, I’ll definitely pay it.

 

You're not at all discouraged by the fact that Max Schmeling started his pro career at light-heavy and Ezzard Charles at middleweight, and it didn't stop either of them from beating Louis?

 

Ezzard Charles is p4p the greatest LHW I wont compare him with average contender.
Same goes for Scmelling.

 

Charles certainly was a great light heavyweight. It's almost as though the fact that he turned pro at a lighter weight was totally irrelevant.

 

Yeah, but he was a true LHW same weight his whole prime while Martin went from 175 to 199 just for the Liston fight.
Same goes for Tunney vs Holyfield.

 

Mm. No, Martin made 175 for the last time six years before he faced Liston.

 

I don't get why Leotis Martin or Rocky are being mentioned here with the topic being Louis vs. Liston. It's not like their losses to them reflect how the fight plays out, both Liston and Louis were shot fighters!

 

But he was still 175, and he was 160 pounds in amateurs.
He was the same size Ezzard Charles was, but he wasn't a 180 pounder let alone 199.

 

People can grow and be heavier and lean at a higher weight. Leotis did this in the 1960s so it was a natural progression.
He was a 6 ft ~195 lbs and he wore them well.

Stop filling up pages of useless posts arguing meaningless points in an interesting thread.
No one wants to sort through 5 pages of bull**** to find the few worthwhile posts.
With all due respect.

 

The last two sentences, yes I think encapsulate it. The thread is losing attraction at the moment unfortunately.

 

Same goes for Toney but he was not a hw, case closed.
You can not convince me that 195 was his natural weight because he was 160 in amateurs and 175 when he started, that is as silly as claiming that Tommy Hearns would be good at fighting Michael Spinks.

I proved some facts and evidences.
In the end Louis last fight was when he lost against real HW who was fighting in amateurs and pros as HW and was ATG too, while Liston last loss was against medicore LHW who was at best HW contender.

 

I haven't read the entire discussion about Leotis' weight, but based on the pictures, he doesn't appear to be a 195-pound person. It seems more like he added weight, but not necessarily muscle. He looks out of shape in that Liston fight, you know, kind of skinny/fat... even thinner than Ezzard Charles

 

Worth mentioning that Leotis came in at #68 in Ring Magazines Top 100 Punchers of All Time....as a heavyweight of course. He was ahead of Ruddock and Holyfield.