Could Ali of beaten John L Sullivan in Bare Knuckle Boxing

Sullivan beats the everloving **** out of Ali under the LPR ruleset, who was used to 1960s gloved combat instead of 1880s LPR. Completely different worlds. Sullivan wouldn't even have to really box with Ali to win, he would just ragdoll him and rough him up in the clinches.

If Sullivan was able to compete with the greatest grappler of the era in Muldoon, what do you think he'd do against a grappling non-entity in Ali? It would be as one-sided as Ali vs. Sullivan would be under the 60s ruleset, but in Ali's favour

 

In Sullivan’s era? Sullivan, very likely. Dozens of rounds in open heat with no gloves…did Ali think Manila was hard? Forget it. This was an age when fights weren’t stopped unless a fighter almost dropped dead, Ali can’t rely on any kind of a stoppage & he’s not going to knock Sullivan out. What’s he going to do, flitter around the ring for 45 rounds?

Sullivan waits until Ali drops dead, gets in his Time Machine & never returns. The vote tally here is out of this world.

 

Ali does not stand a chance against Sullivan fighting in that rule-set. Different world.

 

Sullivan wins by any rule set.

He was the greater talent.

 

This fight would look exactly like Mitsuhiro Yobishi VS Maggris McSams.

 

Height, reach, speed all favor Ali. Ali can hold and hit freely without fear of consequence, and if Sullivan gets 30 seconds to rest by taking a knee, Ali gets those 30 seconds to recuperate as well. I think that favors Ali in the long run, because I think he's smart enough to take something off his punches in order to attain greater accuracy.

Sullivan has moments under LPR but I still think he gets chopped to pieces and eventually pulled by his corner.

 

Ali has no concept of, “the long run” as it’s defined on Sullivan’s scale.

 

Who says John L gets to “wait”?

From opening bell, Ali dances around Sullivan as he did against Williams, effortlessly gliding around as if he were on a hoverboard.

Sullivan can’t even get close enough to do anything for the first 2 mins. He can’t get near Ali to punch him or take him down wrestling style.

Exactly upon the 2 min mark, Ali then starts unloading blinding salvos, snapping the Boston Strong Boy’s head, this way and that.

At the 4 min mark, a well bloodied Sullivan drops to the dirt. First round over.

During the rest period, Sullivan laments to his corner “He’s like a ghost. An apparition that I can’t hit or get hold of.”

Rinse repeat for several more “rounds” thereafter, Sullivan going to ground ever more quickly and than much more damaged each time.

With all the punches landed on him, John L’s handle bar moustache has been turned upside down - now presenting like a frown.

After 10 or so “rounds” of this (= 10 or so KDs of Sullivan), John L is unable to toe the line/come up to scratch and Ali is declared the winner.

Of course this calculation accounts for Ali having no trouble with his sometimes fragile hands and without the dirt surface compromising his leg mobility and defensive moves otherwise.

All the way back in 1889, all witnesses to the event attest that no one in history could ever beat that version of Ali - be it under LPR or MOQ rules.

John L graciously declares Ali as the all time King of both knuckle and gloved combat.

He also adds that if he was gong to lose, he is glad that it was to a fellow American.

John L then heads off to the nearest saloon to down a few (= 1000 whiskeys) muttering that he’s going to lick some other SOB to make himself feel better.

 

He can do a long enough run to beat Sullivan, I think.

 

If Ali could out grapple George Foreman I reckon he could out grapple Sullivan.

 

How? Foreman isn't a grappler, and never genuinely grappled a day in his life outside of very restrictive boxing clinches. Sullivan on the other hand was not only an experienced grappler for years, but was extensively trained by the best wrestler of his era. He and Muldoon used to wrestle competitively together for up to 30 minutes in front of the press.

 

What are Foreman’s grappling credentials? Not having a go at you but strange post.

 

Roughhousing.

 

According to a contemporary report of the Mitchell 1888 fight in France. It took place in a “muddy, slippery 24’ ring” in which, at one point, Charlie drove a spike into Sullivan’s instep!
Hard to imagine Clay/Ali floating …. in those conditions, or on a muddy field or tilting barge!
Very entertaining thread. Have only seen speculation of John L’s skills through the efforts of Greg McClure and Ward Bond in film biopics, which were far better than the dismal Will Smith one.
Again, a great, original thread with no Cleveland Williams in sight!

 

Have you ever seen gloves from that era? They are made for holding, grappling , thumbing , and had so little padding that I've had work gloves that were thicker. One thing I'm certain of, after this fight Ali won't be in front of the cameras talking about how pretty he is.....
You could grab a guy back then and sling him to the canvas so Ali's speed would negated. Ali was never made for this kind of a match