60 years ago today: Charles L. "Sonny" Liston♱ vs. Cassius Marcellus "The Louisville Lip" Clay, Jr.*

Sonny's face didn't look nice after the fight too.

 

I have watched that fight several times. 58-56 for Muhammad Ali is a very fair score, in my view. And I agree that Sonny Liston seemed to be fading at that point anyway. I would be very surprised to hear any boxing fans state that they think Sonny could have won this fight if he had been more willing to fight on. The handwriting was on the wall and on Sonny's face.

 

I think fight would last up to 10th round and end the same way like Ali vs Foreman.

 

"CHARLES (SONNY) LISTON was on cortisone for five days immediately prior to his ill-fated title defense on Feb. 25, according to a report released Tuesday by the Senate Antitrust and Monopoly subcommittee. prepared by the State's attorney's office of Dade county, the report quoted Liston's adviser and personal physician as saying that Listen also was under going physiotherapy for pains in his left, arm for an 8 day Period before the fight. The Miami boxing Commission was not notified of the treatment, the report said. After the fight, according to the report, Dr. Lester Russin and other doctors at Miami's St. Francis Hospital confirmed Liston's injury as an inflamed tendon in his left arm. Dr. Russin was quoted as saying the condition was "particularly prevalent in older athletes".

"The report said that Dr. Russin estimated Liston's actual age as between 38 and 41. The former champion has listed himself as 30 years old."

Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/98505474/the-philadelphia-inquirer/

 

I think there’s some case with specific reference points (including the Censuses) to suggest that Liston was older than he claimed.

At the earliest, I personally would give Liston a YOB of 1928 but I’m not even sure on that.

However, it’s annoying when a so called “Boxing Expert/Historian” like Jerry Izenberg state that “Everyone knew that Liston was much older than he claimed”.

I mean, is that all you got Jerry? Could you elaborate on WHO “Everyone” is and WHY they believed that. If he could’ve even nominated just one person, their WHY might be the same answer as Jerry’s - because “Everyone knew...”

Liston might well have looked older than his age at any rate - that might’ve sparked an original suspicious comment re Sonny’s age - and then those initial doubts spread like wild fire due to Liston’s aged appearance alone.

I think Foreman also said that he believed that Sonny was a bit older than he claimed - but again, nothing more than that.

I think Foreman’s overall point was that Liston was still in good shape “for his age”, as gleaned from their sparring sessions.

 

Sonny Liston was no older than 1929 or even 1930.
His early lifestyle, his drinking and heroin problems aged him very much but he was just old looking young guy just like Tyson and Foreman were.
Tyson at 18 looked like he is 30.
Angelo Dundee said that he saw Liston in great shape few months before second Ali fight, he was thin and in fighting shape, but when he saw him in Maine, he said that Sonny looked like he aged 10 years.

 

There was a You Tube channel that has since been pulled that had a few mins worth of Liston training and being interviewed in the gym - just prior to the originally scheduled rematch in Boston - which was only several days away.

Sonny looked to be in terrific shape. Hoping to land at least as low as 212 lbs for the fight and looking very much on target for that weight if he wasn’t already quite there.

He looked very good in the brief glimpses of his workouts. Notably, he appeared somewhat angry and really itching for the fight to arrive.

Sonny appeared very much ready in both mind and body.

Alas, just a few days later, we know the fight was postponed due to Ali’s hernia and the emergency operation it required.

For what it’s worth, Ali came in at a surprisingly low 206 lbs for the rematch - as opposed to the 210 1/2 lbs he came in for the first fight.

That tells me Ali was looking to glide even more than he did in the first fight. Unless the lower weight was somehow a temporary legacy of his hernia issues.

Still, Ali didn’t look smaller for the lower weight, rather, he appeared that much more cut and possibly with some added muscle in the trade off.

Liston himself came in at 215 1/4 lbs, a bit lighter than his 218 lbs in Miami.

However, just imo, Liston appeared that much softer in the body than he did in the clip I referred to (as above).

I wish I could see that clip again via You Tube and link it, though I might have it somewhere any way.

 

Yup, and Liston knew. That's why he quit when he did.

 

I remember how crestfallen Liston was at the postponement. Training that hard for a must-win fight is light years more difficult for an old boxer. I agree he didn't look sculpted in Lewiston. His weight was fine but he looked very different from the Liston of the first Patterson fight. By the time fight day finally arrived, he looked resigned. He wasn't itching to fight. The confidence and will to win was gone. I've never been convinced he took a dive for money. To his way of thinking, if you can't win why go out there like a damn fool and take another beating for six rounds?

 

Wait, his name is Charles Liston? I thought his actually name was Sonny Liston

 

Totally agree that Liston would’ve been well deflated by the postponement and likely in far less shape than he would’ve been for the originally set date.

As to the fight itself, if Ali had simply retreated to and remained in a neutral corner upon the KD, and if Walcott had simply applied a count as per usual, we would’ve perhaps had that much clearer a picture of Sonny’s true intentions after he hit the deck.

It wasn’t just Liston’s actions that should’ve been under question - but Liston was always the convenient fall guy - after all, Sonny had already deliberately blinded Ali and Machen too, per Eddie’s testimony that was curiously delayed by some 4 years.

Hard to shake off his early criminal past when people (including D’Amato, in his disingenuous efforts to avert a Patterson having to fight Liston) were never going to let him forget it.

 

Dammit, I missed this!

 

Definitely no chance of Liston coming back here.
Ali would have turned up the heat on sonny and we'd have seen shades of the Terrell fight In there. Imo