Greg Page Losing To Mark Wills ?

Not a great deal of mystery in Greg Page being beaten by anyone really. A huge waste of talent.

 

True that. Got Marvin Stinson and Mitch Green too.

 

From June 1982 to April 1989 when Page was 23-30 years old, his record was 9-9. His best wins during this period were Coetzee, Tillis, and Snipes none of whom were doing particularly well at that time. Some of His losses included Mark Wills, David Bey, Buster Douglas and an aged Joe Bugner. Based on what I’ve watched of his earlier showings Page looked like a very good “ prospect” but I question whether or not he was ever truly world class.

 

After 1985, Page wasn't the fighter he was. He never truly developed into what he could have been.

 

The highlighted is simply not true. Coetzee had just come off his best ever win over a Dokes who was rated #2 in the world. Snipes too was coming off his best ever win over Berbick. The fact of the matter is both were doing the best they ever did, the exact opposite of your claim.

 

Come on, John. Coetzee was coming off a 15 month layoff and having management problems with his own father. After the page loss he never did anything else of note again. You yourself have even highlighted this in years past. As for snipes, yes he beat Berbick. But he was also in the middle of a series of losses that came both before and immediately after the page fight. So what I said to some degree was true

 

It's factual to say both Coetzee and Snipes were coming off the best wins they ever had. Coetzee was WBA champion and rated the second best heavyweight in the world. Cooney came in off a 13 month layoff vs Holmes and did quite well. What about what Page faced? A black man coming over into Coetzee's home country, a country of apartheid? Page had Don King/managerial problems for ages too.

The simple thing is to watch the fight. Coetzee fought well and they had a great fight, a close fight that see-sawed back and forth. Coetzee landed some terrific right hands, right hands that had rendered others unconscious, but Page came back hard after soaking them up with aplomb before launching big right hands of his own.

I doubt I've ever highlighted that in my life and definitely don't remember any such thing tbh. Coetzee actually beat James Tillis next fight and Tillis wasn't far out of the top ten and would give the up and coming Mike Tyson a great fight a year or so later. At any rate i could name a hoard of top fighters who lost then never did much of anything again. It happens. Coetzee had been performing strongly for years.

Let's bring an ounce of context into the equation. Snipes lost a controversial decision to Tim Witherspoon in his prior fight and next fight Witherspoon gave Holmes one helluva fight. He'd also had Holmes in terrible condition when he dropped im hard with the right hand that shook the world. Snipes looked quite dangerous against Berbick. Tho Page didn't dominate rounds as convincingly as Holmes did he didn't get nailed and look in danger of losing either. He controlled Snipes with a long fast left hand, a quick snapping right hand and showed excellent reflexes. When Snipes looked to load up on big right hands toward the end Page made sure he never got caught napping.

We all know the vast majority 80's Heavyweights except Larry Holmes were hot and cold and all over the place. Most know that they were extremely talented on their good days and the likes of Page, Witherspoon and even Snipes were indeed.

 

Tillis had taken a beating from Pinklon Thomas just three months earlier. When I tried to give Mike McCallum credit for beating Ayoub Kalule you quickly jumped in to discredit it by saying that Kalule shouldn’t even have taken the fight because of the beating he took a few months prior to that. Let’s keep things consistent.

Yes Tillis gave Tyson a good fight and deserves credit for that. But Mike was 19 years old and had been fighting for all but 16 months. Every great prospect gets taken the distance by some lesser fighter at some point. The only good fighter Tillis ever beat was an over the hill shavers who still managed to take him to the cards and even drop him.

Snipes might have been robbed against a 14 fight Witherspoon but was also gifted against Coetzee. Swings both ways. He also drew with Scott Frank and lost to both Evangelista and Parkey within very close proximity to losing to page. The Berbick fight was a good win, but sniped beating Berbick only elevates page’s win over him by so much. Fact Is page’s best wins are pretty much over guys who everybody and their brother beat at one point or another

Beating Gerrie Coetzee in his home town to take the WBA title warrants some credit. But let’s not pretend that this was the same Coetzee who fought Dokes. 15 months is a long time to be out of the ring and also having managerial problems. I honestly suspect that most of the 1984 top 10 would have lifted the title off Gerrie that evening, and that even includes a returning Cooney at the end of that year. And I’m pretty sure you’ve commented on Coetzee not being in ideal form at some point in the past but I’m not about to go digging through 17 years of posts to prove it. I’ll let you know when i get that kind of time

while Beating Snipes, Tillis, Coetzee, Monroe, Evangelista, and Chaplin were all good wins a lot of these accomplishments are over shadowed by what I was initially pointing out. Page went 9-9 from age 23-30 and suffered more than a few losses to lesser opponents. He no doubt had talent but much of it never materialized and in fact finished as one of the weaker front runners of his generation.

 

[QUOTE="JohnThomas1,

The simple thing is to watch the fight. Coetzee fought well and they had a great fight, a close fight that see-sawed back and forth. [/QUOTE]

Indeed. And there was a bit of controversy about how it ended. Remember what it was ?

 

Indeed. And there was a bit of controversy about how it ended. Remember what it was ?[/QUOTE]

@mr. magoo

Page knocked out Coetzee at 3:40 or 3:50 of the eighth round.

That’s not a typo. The round ran 40-50 seconds too long, timekeeper for whatever reason let the round keep going and never rang the bell.

Officially it was announced at 3:03 with Coetzee not beating the count but replays make it clear the round went well beyond the 3-minute mark.

 

@mr. magoo

Page knocked out Coetzee at 3:40 or 3:50 of the eighth round.

That’s not a typo. The round ran 40-50 seconds too long, timekeeper for whatever reason let the round keep going and never rang the bell.

Officially it was announced at 3:03 with Coetzee not beating the count but replays make it clear the round went well beyond the 3-minute mark.[/QUOTE]
Yes

 

Indeed. And there was a bit of controversy about how it ended. Remember what it was ?[/QUOTE]

I'd remember it well enough not to have to look it up a day later let it be said. I've seen the full fight half a dozen times.

Storm in a teacup tho. There was no advantage to one or the other. Anyone that's watched the fight would realise Page had taken over the fight and the majority have him winning the last four rounds before the brutal KO. The writing was on the wall.

When Page was told the last round went almost 4 minutes? "That's okay, man i trained for five minute rounds".

I'll reply to the other post later tonight Goo when i have some decent time.

 

I know, it's one of those strange things that seem hard to explain.
Now if this had been Page in Peak..

 

This is an absolute strawman. You ask me to keep things consistent yet if you re-read my post i never said a single thing about Page beating Tillis or the Tillis win being worthy/great etc.....i never mentioned the win whatsoever - that was you. Lets not pretend i talked the Tillis win up so i am vulnerable or guilty to the whole McCallum - Kalule shizbang strawman. You've made it up.

There was plenty of talk from people in the business about Kalule getting back in the ring too soon. The Moore - Kalule war was brutal.

I agree. It was actually 14 months too. It still shows Tillis had something left no matter which way you slice it. Tyson was rather dangerous and in fact knocked Berbick senseless just 6 months later.

Tillis was a good fighter. The only people he lost to in a 4 year stretch was Weaver, Thomas and Page who were champ or top 5 heavyweights not that long prior or after. As a matter of fact he only got beaten by contenders for many years.

Read what i said again. I said absolutely nothing about Snipes being robbed so this is a strawman as well. I said it was controversial. Some scored it for Renaldo. It was no highway robbery and from memory the majority favored Tim. That "14 fight Witherspoon" showed exactly how good he could jive next fight. Trying to diminish him on lack of fights at this point doesn't really hold up.

You're Playing plenty of guessing games, perhaps the loss to Page knocked him off kilter. Perhaps he was having those dreaded managerial problems. Who knows. The fact is he was rated higher than ever when he fought Page and coming off his best ever win no matter how it is sliced. This is factual. Obviously Pages win over Snipes is made better by Snipes coming off a win over Berbick, losing to Berbick sure wouldn't have helped it.

Same as almost every boxer ever hey. A lot of these top guys were fighting each other in lieu of matches (or rematches) vs Holmes so of course they were going to take some L's. That's what happens when top 5 fighters fight each other on a regular basis. As previously said the lost generation were very inconsistent and this was magnified by the top guys fighting on a regular basis - especially on the WBA title side of things.

How do you know it wasn't the same Coetzee? That's just your opinion and an opinion that suits your side of the debate. Dokes was a solid favorite over him. I watched the fight and tho sloppy at times he went well. Just because he lost to an inspired Page doesn't mean he was shyte on the night. I completely disagree most of the top 10 would have beat him but i actually watched the fight and saw the right hand missiles Page had to ship to win. I also watched how hard he was hitting Coetzee with big right hand counters. It was a case of one man being able to take it longer than the other. Cooney never beat a top 5 contender in his life and certainly never showed he could take right hand bombs like Page did that night so it's a big leap of faith and common sense. From memory he was hitting the bottle more than the heavy bag and to abort his comeback his heart was oh so obviously not in boxing. This is just common sense.

The search wouldn't take that long at all. The way i read it you have insinuated i have highlighted Coetzee's form or inactivity around the Page bout. Not a chance.

Everyone knows the story of Page. My point was you were incorrect on your assertions Coetzee and Snipes were going nowhere at the time and i was bang on.

I missed this earlier. You're questioning whether a guy that was in the ratings for 5 straight years or more was world class???? A guy that spent multiple periods as high as #2 and #3 and was in the top #5 for too many months to count? A guy that KO'd the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world to win a strap?

What's your definition of world class? SRR and Duran? Your definition of world class is very strange.

 

Fair