If Marciano Had Fought Valdes,Baker,& Henry?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Feb 28, 2024.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Layne never ko'd a ranked fighter.
    Mathews was a hype job. 42 of his 61 kos were over lhv's ,middles, and even lighter men.
    He himself was a lhvy.He never stopped a ranked heavyweight.
    Two thirds of Moore's ko wins are over journeymen and most of them were not heavyweights.Plus Moore was 41 years old.
    Louis' power was a thing of the past.
    Eddie Ross?
    He never weighed over 175lbs.
    He never beat a heavyweight.
    Seven of his 19 wins were over debutees.Nine were over men with losing records!
    Ko percentages are very often misleading!
    NB I never said he would be ko'd by powerful punchers.I said he met very few big hitters, and no top drawer ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2024
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Marciano was often off balance and sometimes fell over when he missed a punch ,lets not try and make him into some dancing master!
     
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  4. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The three men you mentioned all lost to Moore. Why would you give Marciano more credit for beating these men than for beating Moore?
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm aware Moore beat them.
    Foreman annihilated Frazier ,and Norton but lost to Ali.
    I'd give Marciano credit for beating big prime heavyweights of class which he never did.
    I'm asking the forum for their opinions, not foisting mine on them.
     
  6. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay. My opinion is defeating inferior big men doesn't trump beating better "little" men.

    The best fighter fighting at heavyweight whom Marciano did not beat was Harold Johnson. Johnson beat Henry and Valdes, and a slew of others.

    By the way, little Bob Satterfield also beat Valdes, and Baker.

    There just is not evidence that the big men of the time were all that formidable. So beating them would not enhance Marciano's standing for me. I think old Joe Louis was probably the best big man (for the time) out there.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Valdes beating Charles puts him in the frame,imo.Charles beating 180lbs Satterfield got him his shot against Marciano.
    Comeback Louis was kept away from the best of the big guys particularly the punchers.
     
  8. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    * Henry's not that big (6'1" and routinely weighed under 190lbs) and had two losses against Johnson and Moore by the time Marciano faced Matthews. He was a solid contender, but on the slide at that point and a win over him probably gets dismissed later on.

    * Marciano faced LaStarza for the title because the first fight was close and somewhat controversial. Nino was beginning the best run of his career, but I still think there would have been a hue and cry about not giving LaStarza a chance for revenge had they not rematched at/around that point. I think Nino in place of Cockell seems like a better win, but either way his inconsistency probably gets held against him and Rocky by extension.

    * Baker had been blasted out by Satterfield and Moore by the time '55 rolled around. It's a good win, but like Nino, Baker's record is spotty enough where it doesn't enhance Marciano's resume all that much.

    Ultimately, the one guy that Marciano needed to fight was the guy he defeated in his last fight. Moore had wins over all three, and was routinely campaigning at heavyweight while moonlighting as LH champion. He's probably the best single heavyweight contender of the early 50's and Rocky's win over him defines his reign as champ.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2024
  9. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But he KOed so many guys including Bob Satterfield who knocked Cleveland Williams.
    He also beat Walcott even dropped him.

    Yeah but he beat Ezzard and knocked out Marshall and Lowry.
    Cleveland Williams lost against LHW with bad chin, Matthews atleast beat them.

    Moore was not 41 when he faced Marciano.
    And Moore beat Valdes and Besmanoff so yeah, they were not heavies ha ha.

    So much that he knocked Walcott and Savold.
    Does that mean that he was not a good puncher?
    His ko ratio would not be that high even against small guys if he was a bad fighter.
     
  10. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I never said that I wrote that.
    Again you are making yourself a fool.
    If I stated that I did maybe it would be plag but since is not, you are not going smart then.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Layne's only name ko was Satterfield who was often stopped.Satterfield stopped a teenage last minute sub in Williams.
    Layne never dropped Walcott.
    Moore's Mother said he was a 41.I guess she would know.

    Moore beat Valdes and Besmanoff , but he didn't stop Valdes.Louis stopped Walcott in 47, he fought Marciano in51!

    Savold was tko'd and he was as far past it as Louis.

    It means Mathews never proved himself a puncher at heavyweight!

    Correction, Williams was 20 and Louis did ko Savold.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
  12. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah, but Satterfield was one of the hardest KO punchers.
    Teenage?
    He was 20 almost 21, that's not a teenage and he had 30 fights, no excuses for losing.
    Nuts, Layne did dropped Walcott.
    So it matters what Moore mother said not what he claimed to be his birthdate?
    Again this is nuts, so according to you every fighter could be 10 years older or younger than he is because his mother said so.
    Joe Louis 211 lbs beat Lee Savold 190 lbs by KO at 2:29 in round 6 of 15.
    He was KOd no need to lie, but it is common with you to lie.
     
  13. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He'd have been 52-0...
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Williams was a last minute substitute.

    Layne did not knockdown Walcott.
    Walcott was penalized in the 8th round for a foul back-hand blow.

    "Amidst wild cheering, blood-smeared Rex Layne of Utah established himself as a heavyweight challenger tonight by winning an upset 10 round decision over ex-challenger Jersey Joe Walcott in MSG. Layne, Lewiston, Utah, forced the fighting in every round and gave the 36 year old Walcott a thorough trouncing, despite the fact that Rex was handicapped by blood from cuts near his left eye as early as the first round. Layne surprised the fans with his aggressiveness and the explosiveness of his punche which knocked Joe into the ropes several times. Layne, only 22, was bleeding so badly from his left eye in the closing sessions that Dr. Vincent Nardiello of the NY Boxing Commission's staff examined the wounds after the 8th and 9th rounds, but he permitted the bout to continue. There were no knockdowns." -United Press


    Moore said he was 39,his Mother said he was 41.She had no reason to lie Moore obviously would have!
    Here is Moore's date of birth Dec13th 1913.
    He fought Marciano onSep 21st 1955
    That makes him 41!
    Wikipedia
    Archie Moore (born Archibald Lee Wright; December 13, 1913 – December 9, 1998)
    From IMDP
    Archie Moore(1913-1998)


    Brittanica
    Archie Moore DOB Dec 13th 1913.



    Williams was 20 and Louis did ko Savold . Unlike you I can admit when I am wrong!


    You are probably the most objectionable and ignorant
    poster on this forum.Congratulations you have won a prize!
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Very likely!
     
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