H2H Heavyweights (Mount Rushmore)

Uh, where is the undefeated man, Rocky Marciano?

1. or 2. Ali
1. or 2. Louis
3. or 4. Marciano
3. or 4. Lewis

 

Fair play to you if this is some kind of a run-off. Undefeated, 49 wins, highest KO percentage, six wins over four legends. The Rocks shits all over many of these guys. But carry on.

 

I think it speaks to a wider problem...a lot of guys are voting on perceived H2H ability, which is imaginary. The only proper metric for voting between eras is what the fighters accomplished in their own time, because that is all we can ever know.

I am a bit shocked by how undervalued Evander is. I am the first to point out that his legacy takes a huge dump due to "Evan Fields," and I think the sheer number of (mostly back-end) losses, and the age of his opponents factor in. Still, even all of that considered, he is underrated. All of that nontwithstanding, his resume is a juggernaught.

 

1. John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz
2. John L Sullivan
3. Wladimir Klitschko
4. William Sheriff

 

Maybe because Riddick Bowe sucked.

 

Joe Louis and there is some distance between him and number 2. Mike Tyson then probably Lennox, Ali, Holmes or Wlad.

 

It’s very likely your number 7 sweeps everyone above him. How can George Foreman, Evander and Bowe be on here but not Joe Louis? He’d be a lock to KO all three very quickly.

 

I respect this.

 

Deep into the vote we have -

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Mike Tyson
6. Sonny Liston
7. Larry Holmes

Decent effort and IMO the right top 7. The order can be finessed a dozen different ways but i think the right names are there personally.

 

Ali is a long way ahead and Lewis is a long way ahead of #3 at this point as well. Personally i'd have those two exactly where they are. Holmes at #7 has double the votes of Vitali so the top 7 is cemented you'd think.

 

There are a few fighters afforded hypothetical H2H success that they didn’t even upheld during their actual careers.

I can’t see anyone who exceeded the varied breadth and depth of quality that Ali prevailed over. And Ali proactively sought out that competition.

Ali didn’t play games by simply satisfying mandatories at the barest minimum nor advantage himself of obviously shonky ratings.

It’s not impugning Marciano to say that Rocky prevailed over a tight selection of older opposition - and several of those fights were no cake walks.

Liston literally and absolutely cleaned out the division before finally being afforded the opportunity to destroy the reigning Champ -

AND, Sonny destroyed him again in the rematch - the ONLY times that Floyd ever had the count of “10” tolled over him.

Talk about applying yourself as broadly and as deeply as possible. Liston left nothing to ask for.

I’ve read Liston described as a “weight bully” two TOO many times. It’s nonsensical at all levels.

For one thing, Liston didn’t cherry pick his opposition - he fought everyone he had to fight and then some.

For another thing, Liston had more than his fair share of sizeable opposition on his resume.

And finally, there was the contingent of fighters who didn’t even want to walk on the same side of the street as Liston.

Even by the late 60s, even Team Frazier didn’t want to take the risk against Liston.

 

I don't do these h2h lists myself, but you're braving putting Fury at nr. 2 with the Usyk fight still to come (hopefully). If he beats Usyk handily then it holds up, but if he loses it won't age well. I favour Usyk, but who knows.