Anyone find it ridicolous how active of a fighter Ali was? Why did he fight so much?

Strangely, Ali appeared to relish laying on the ropes and taking shots in sparring - above and beyond the potential of its practical purposing in an actual fight.

Funny, as kids we’d copy that, challenging our mates to hit us while we were covering up - body shots allowed only. Any accidental heads shots, then it quickly morphed into a real fight. Lol.

 

Wilfredo Gomez too.

Back then, world champions even fought 0-1 no hoppers..lol a 10-0 guy like Marvis Frazier? Why he was a contender!

 

That was very much the case of the late 70's. After Norton 3 he knew every top fighter was someone he could lose to and that would have been a very good time to pack it in, but instead he tried to stay afloat by picking and choosing opponents and I think a big part was that craving of the feeling a big fight gave. Money, sure, but missing out on the limelight was probably a more tangible factor.

 

Absolutely!!!!!

 

I wonder how his first reign would have looked like without the draft. For the first two years it looked to be set at a similar pace as Marciano's, with two defences against the top contender every year. Liston 2 was scheduled for late '64, but was pushed back six months because of the hernia and six months after that it was Patterson, with negotiations for a fight with Terrell starting probably in late '65 or early '66.

But then came the "no quarrel" comment and the Terrell fight fell through because no venue in the US would host it, and it was first at that moment that the defences started to come really thick and fast.

So maybe he would just have defended against Terrell and one other challenger in '66 if not for the draft, and continued at that pace.

EDIT: The Terrell fight was actually signed to take place a little more than four months after Patterson. Maybe there would have been room for two more defences in 1966.

From Boxrec:

• Ali was scheduled to fight WBA heavyweight titlist Ernie Terrell in Chicago, Illinois, on March 29, 1966. However, about six weeks before the fight, Ali's draft classification was changed from 1-Y to 1-A, making him eligible for the draft. Ali, facing the possibility of being drafted into the United States Army during the Vietnam War, created a huge uproar by famously saying, "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong." He was called before the Illinois State Athletic Commission to apologize for his "unpatriotic remarks." Ali appeared before the commission on February 25, but he refused to apologize. Immediately afterward, Illinois State Attorney General William G. Clark declared the bout "illegal." He cited violations of the Illinois Exhibition Act and the Illinois Boxing Act. [1]
• "I ran around the country without any luck looking for a state where we could have the fight," said Bob Arum, who was secretary of Main Bout, a corporation formed to manage the ancillary promotional rights to Ali's fights. "Finally, I took it to Montreal and then it was Toronto and then Terrell pulled out and we wound up with Ali-Chuvalo." It was the first fight Arum ever promoted.

 

A given for when he’s young, yes.

 

Interesting what the alternate timeline would be with no draft. If he keeps to the pace of about two defences a year then Mildenberger looks good as a defence after Terrell, around the time it actually took place. And let's say he squeezes in Williams at the end of the year, just as it actually happened, because it's good money for sentimental reasons.

After that it's back to the highest ranked, which in early '67 would have been either Folley or Spencer. After that Frazier looks good, but Durham is said to have thought it to be too early so maybe he closes out the year against the one of Folley/Spencer he didn't face earlier or maybe Bonavena. A rematch with Patterson could also be on the cards. Then in early '68 Quarry looks good if a fight with Frazier still doesn't happen, but after that there's really only Frazier left.

If he wins that one the division is pretty much a waste land for the next 4-5 years. Apart from one or two rematches it's the likes of Ellis, Mathis and MacFoster until Foreman, Norton etc.

 

or not even once a year crap...

Boxing died a long, long time ago.

 

Would he beat Frazier though? I’m not too convinced.

 

Have to say. I expected this response from you.

This is a discussion that comes up now and then, but for me it's fairly straight forward. Past prime Ali is 2-1 against Frazier. And, yes, Frazier was past his best for the two he lost but never more so than Ali. And this would be absolute peak Ali against a Frazier that's still on a learning curve. If Ali prepares well I see no reason he doesn't take it.

I'd give Frazier a better chance if a rematch takes place a few years down the line.

 

I’m sure it’s all of the above to some degree or another: Needed money, liked the limelight, etc.

But I’ll add another speculative factor: You don’t appreciate what you have until you lose it. Ali had boxing but then was exiled for 3 years after refusing induction when he was drafted and his case wound its way through the courts up to the Supreme Court.

It’s very possible that in addition to the other factors, he missed boxing and realized not to take it for granted, that it could be taken away from him again for some reason … so he went back into the ring with relish and embraced boxing because it meant so much him.

 

People on this thread are actually implying that Muhammad Ali fought for fame and money and things like that? That's really effed up, man! Really effed up! I'm not gonna take this laying down! Mods, delete this thread!

 

It’s a very debatable fight, of course. I see it a little differently though - that Ali probably had to fight Frazier to learn how to beat him. In their first meeting, Ali fought Frazier & narrowly lost that. His adjustment consisted of hugging Frazier like a long lost brother at a family reunion to stifle Frazier’s inside game. It worked (convincingly in their second fight & just barely in the rubber match), but Ali in about 1969 which is when this fight is likely to take place is very possibly too cocky to think he could lose.

Of course it’s that close either man could easily win.

 

He had a large entourage and complicated marriage situations plus court cases etc so I think a steady income stream was always a priority for him.
Having said that I think underneath all the bluster and hype Ali was a competitive animal who always wanted to prove himself against anyone and while the training might have sometimes been a chore he loved being in the ring.

 

Besides all the things mentioned here that are possibly, probably true. You get good at fighting by fighting and you get paid as often as you fight.