Anthony Joshua vs. Francis Ngannou •

5 minute rounds, ref discretion stand ups, no headbutts, no wrestling shoes, gi etc allowed. None of those things favour wrestlers/grapplers. The UFC also clearly has, and always has had, a preference towards striking because as you say its more what the fans want to see. Its not a case of rules favouring grappling, its that in a rock paper scissors situation if you have a striker with little or no grappling ability vs a grappler, the chances of the grappler closing distance and taking the fight to the ground are a lot higher than the chances of the striker landing something significant enough to end the fight before it happens.


Why are we even acting like MMA is all grappling anyway? MMA in the UFC these days is probably like 75% stand up because, unlike boxers, they're pretty much all good enough at defensive wrestling/grappling that its often not worth exerting energy trying to take someone down.

Not sure what your point is about street fights. Dont MMA fighters punch too? wouldnt that be more than enough for them in most street instances? and if we are gonna start bringing in weapons, sucker punches, multiple attackers etc it becomes a pointless argument, anyone can "beat" anyone in that situation. What it really comes down to though is in an unarmed 1 v 1 situation MMA fighters are more well equipped to win than boxers, and would win the vast majority of the time.

So is boxing opera in this analogy then?

You're implying that MMA is actually the inferior product but appeals to the lowest common denominator or something. Is that really the case though? do you think boxing fans actually have it better for the most part?

This gets clung to a lot by boxing fans but I dont buy it honestly. Not saying MMA is more popular globally but I dont think its anywhere near as black or white or as big of a disparity as some would like it to be. I'm not American either.

 

What time is the main event ring walk supposed to be? UK time

 

Around 10pm I think.

 

Of course MMA fighters punch too and in a street fight would no doubt be dangerous guys. I'm just saying I think street fights are generally mostly punching and perhaps some stand-up grappling. I don't think most people are intentionally wanting to go to the ground as it only complicates matters.

Unarmed and 1 vs 1 It would be whoever landed first and in a good amount of the cases I would put my money on the professional fist fighter rather than the person who sometimes works on fist fighting but also maybe is a little less used to getting tagged and continuing on in the fight or somebody who is used to having many other options for fighting. That's my take.

For example in a gun battle, maybe there is somebody who has an assault rifle and a shotgun on his person and a gun in the ankle holster and a gun on his hip and is going against a sharpshooter with a sniper rifle. Who's going to win? Probably the person who places one bullet in the correct spot.

Yes boxing would be opera in this case. I do believe MMA appeals to the lowest common denominator. I think it's got a lot of hype and a lot of propaganda and I think the fan base is made of many ignorant frat boys and Reddit tier fad-followers. Now I'm not saying that MMA is a fad itself (I'm a fan of martial arts in general -Kenpo, Judo, Aikido, Savate, Sambo etc) But I'm saying a large portion of the fan base seems to be the type of people who follow fads or trends perhaps would be the better word.

Not all, but I think that's a big bulk of the audience and I think most of them are extremely ignorant and they just repeat whatever they heard on the latest Joe Rogan. I think these are the people who are easily taken by hype and flashing lights and smoke on this type of thing.

 

They dont "sometimes" work on fist fighting though. These days MMA fighters are training boxing daily, with boxing coaches and often actual boxers as sparring partners.

And their takedowns are being trained in the context of their opponent being able to hit them while they do it.

How does this make sense when MMA is the one where fights continue after you get rocked instead of the hurt fighter being given a count?

Which sport has more ducking, cherry picking and record inflation?

And what exactly makes boxing "opera" to you?

I think you're massively overgeneralizing and also using stereotypes (the frat boy thing) that havent really been applicable since the 00s. MMA is a legitimate international sport now both in terms of the participants and the fanbase.

I'm not sure it can really be called a "fad" when it started blowing up in like 2005 and is still here nearly 20 years later at this point fully entrenched into the sporting landscape.

Yes, flashing lights, smoke, exciting fights, deep cards, the best fighting the best etc. That kind of sh1t.

 

He was 9-2-1

 

Fabio Maldonado was 26-0 in boxing at one point, and went the distance with Rivas (who was top 10 ranked at the time) and Takam when he was like 40. This is the same Maldonado who in his prime got knocked out in 35 seconds by Stipe. Would you say Maldonado had a good run in boxing?

 

Anyone else think no one wanted to fight ngannu cus they looked at him and thought **** that.

Barring zhang who I believe he refused?

I mean just look at the guy.

Then Tyson stupidly opened the door.

 

No one is saying boxers can’t be good at mma , or boxing isn’t and effective martial arts.

Using only boxing is silly in a sport where you’re allowed to use multiple tools.

You’re kind of rambling and making long essays to get some odd take. Seems like you agree you need to cross train but you have like tally you’re trying to score.

Look at the difference between Holly Holm and Claressa Shields mma career.

Holly came in and dedicated full time to mma and trained at the same gym and she did far better than Shields performances.

Holly respects the grappling aspect more and she would never have lost to the girl that beat Shields or go split decision with cans.

Shields is half assing her mma grappling and she looks awful getting mounted and punching from the mount.

I was one of the few people here who gave francis a chance to beat Fury or point out that it would be competitive, the transition for mma fighters will always be easier because the mma fighter has already years and decades into striking and sparring.

A boxer who transitions to mma will take longer to make it to the top, they need at least 3 years of mma training and a bjj purple belt level.

They might get away with minimum wrestling if they fight heavyweight and get matched with strikers, but they’d still be in a deficit with kicks.

I think these convos are silly, i rather talk about the actual boxing match between aj and ngannou and how the dynamic goes.

Seems that pure boxing fans want to have their cake and eat it, claim boxers are both the best at boxing and outside the ring, we just know it’s not true, because even if you hate mma striking , glory kick boxers are better overall strikers than boxers.

 

Thx .

So or so listen to the guy in the clip. Ali and Bas Rutten are mentioned when it comes about cornering an opponent (possible in the ring, not possible in an octagon) and punching power with boxing gloves, MMA gloves and bare fist (Rutten's punching test), and he points out the enviroment in an octagon, how it's built (the floor thickness etc), and how the rules prefer grappler's over strikers:

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It starts on the right spot. And there are simply some things which are mostly ignored by MMA people.

 

1) LOL Wing Chun.

2) A lot of the rules he highlights that are apparently there to protect grapplers werent even there in the early years of the UFC when grapplers dominated even more than they do today. Hilariously some of the rules that supposedly protect grapplers would be most effectively utilized by grapplers too. For instance headbutts and knees to the head of a grounded opponent were often utilized by guys like Coleman and Kerr. Knees were most often used when a grappler would get into side control or north south.

3) The no1 organisation in MMA for almost a decade was Pride, which used a ring and also allowed kicks to the head of a grounded opponent.

4) Several of the current UFC champions are predominantly strikers.

5) Having 5 minute rounds does not favour grapplers, it gives them very little time to work. Having no headbutts does not favour grapplers as its one of the easiest attacks from top position while doing quite a bit of damage. Having no gi and no shoes does not favour grapplers as it doesnt allow them to get proper grip. Having judges value striking over takedowns or control time does not favour grapplers. Having the ref stand the fighters up if he believes theres not enough activity or progression does not favour grapplers.

6) Seriously ****ing LOL Wing Chun dont listen to anything those losers have to say its pure Bullshido.

 

We saw it happen with Fury v Ngannou, clear robbery, Fury dropped and whooped and still got the win. Same again tonight

 

Unlikely - Joshua won't be unfit, and he'll establish the jab much more effectively.

I reckon there's a 90% chance this is a clear UD - so clear it should be beyond controversy, but that doesn't mean a narrative won't get invented.

 

Fury won by 2 rounds get over it.

 

I saw the two had words while Francis was on stage, but there was also a face to face confrontation Eddie Hearn talks about at 8:22 of this video. Is there video of this anywhere?

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