Does Ngannou have a glass jaw?

Francis was sufficiently cognisant to take 8-9 counts before arising for the first two KDs.

Fighters can actually learn how to take shots in sparring in order to prevent them losing their head or panicking.


Ali had a great chin but he spent years in sparring learning how to take and cope with punishment.

Francis was so open to the right, especially after the stance switch, that it makes me wonder how much proper sparring he did and whether his partners were of sufficient quality to alert him to formulate a better defence against the straight right hand.

Francis definitely appeared just as much shocked as he was hurt after the first KD. A very alien experience for him at every level.

Ultimately, we’re still talking a two fight pro who is basically 1-1 after facing two of the best that the division has to offer.

I think the Boxing vs MMA angle has some wanting to flush Francis down the toilet faster than what is actually warranted.

If AJ was the rubber stamped 1 fight Boxing pro, MMA guy as at the time, there’s a good chance that he might’ve been similarly dismissed when he was blown away by Andy Ruiz - and, no disrespect to AJ, but, ultimately, he did kind of give up in that fight - and that was AJ’s own “alien” experience - which Francis has just been subjected to himself.

AJ’s post fight words to Francis struck me to some extent as having the tone of “been there, done that” in so far as suffering a dramatic defeat goes. Again, maybe I’m reading too deep, lol.

 

Yeah, the way the fight was unpacking, it wasn’t highly speculative to understand that a point or more taken away from Fury would’ve made all the difference to the decision.

I can def. see the truth in the ref/judges steering away from that - allowing Fury every chance to pull it out of the bag.

He also got another 23 seconds to recuperate after a KD (as he did against Wilder).

Both instances of same were ridiculous, tbh.

 

Exactly, poor defence. Those accurate and powerful blows
could never have entered Usyk's guard.

 

It's hilarious how one fight can change narratives instantly around here... And how the fanboys and hypetrain passengers don't even think through the implications of their flip-flopping.

Before AJ, Ngannou had a cast iron chin because MMA couldn't crack it and Tyson "God" Fury couldn't so much as scuff it, nevermind dent it.

Then AJ knocks him out so decisively he needs oxygen to come around and suddenly it's glass.

Well here's the implementation...
Fury, who knocked out Wilder, is clearly even more feather fisted (and feather elbowed) than anyone thought, because he was bouncing off glass. And that means Wilder isn't even packing glass, he's something even more fragile than that - eggshell perhaps?


Or, perhaps, it's much simpler than that... Francis had/has a pretty decent chin but no real defence or understanding of rolling with punches - and much like Wilder scored loads of devastating KO's by loading up on guys who were mediocre fighters, Joshua did exactly the same thing to Francis (probably with similar power - which he doesn't get to show as often because his opponents aren't usually as pathetic as Wilder's usually were).

 

Bingo.

So... Suddenly lots of us recognise that it's easy to lay down devastating KO's on limited fighters - but Wilder's power myth persists even though his resume is almost entirely journeymen, with a couple of gatekeepers thrown in?

 

And that changed him from a murderous puncher into a sub-feather fisted non-puncher?

Cmon man...

Yes, that's why he struggled when he shouldn't have - but it doesn't explain why the punches he did land were ineffective.

They're big punches from one of the bigger hitters in the division - and they're full impact, he didn't do anything to soften them.

To take those at all requires a decent chin.

It's nowhere near glass - it's a standard thing around here, though, to jump straight to the extremes... Chins are either granite or glass

Francis chin was probably well above average, but that doesn't mean he was immune to being knocked out (because nobody is - plenty of guys with decent chins get knocked out occasionally, including Parker, Joyce, even Chisora, etc).

 

Does anybody has an educated guess what the hell happened in the ngannou-fury fight ?

Aj was so easily able to overhelm ngannou,s defense and knock him out cold that fury should have been able to at least control every round and clearly win - even coming into the ring straight out of a pub .

 

Not without taking the sting out of them a touch - which Francis didn't.

And even then... Joshua doesn't throw that hard very often because it leaves you open, it's risky if you're fighting serious guys (which he sometimes does, and has). That's always been why Wilder's been able to load up - he's not fought dangerous guys.

Joyce couldn't take the beating from Zhang, that's kinda the point...

And also, Zhang's punches coming from nowhere but still with good power is what makes them so dangerous - it's harder to pick them and roll with them.

Zhang's lack of telegraph allowed him to do to Joyce what AJ was able to do to Francis with what should've been an obviously telegraphed swing to an experienced boxer (which Francis isn't).

 

Faster is a question of styles, opportunity/luck more than a hard fact of anything.

In this case, the fact that Francis didn't roll with the punches at all makes them effectively harder - it doesn't mean his chin is weaker.

I disagree.

It's not granite, but it's still above average going by his MMA career and the fact he was able to take ANY power punches without rolling with them at all.

As you say, now he's retired we'll probably never know what his chin is like AFTER that punch, let alone before it... There's no mountain of evidence that it's weak, and plenty of decent evidence from MMA that it's pretty good - he just lacks the technique and experience to transfer it to boxing to the level it should've been capable of.

 

If you are going to troll put some effort in.

 

If you want to put it that strongly... No, it's absolutely ****ing not ("whether you like it or not").

Faster is about how quickly you can size up an opponent, and either judge/time an opening for a power punch OR create that opening yourself.

In other words, style is very much relevant.

Whether that power punch puts them down or not is a question of chin Vs power (how solid the chin is and how much power the puncher has AND how heavily they commit to it).

Chin is only one factor in the equation.

Or it's about more than just chin.

Fine by me

In any case, disagreements are just as interesting for other people reading (hopefully) that's the whole point of discussion boards - it's probably time other people had a go

 

It's not that Ngannou has a weak chin, it's just that boxers hit harder than MMA fighters.

Remember that boxing gloves are more cushioned than MMA gloves, meaning that boxers can punch as hard as they can without worrying about hurting their hands, and they cover a larger surface area.

 

No human alive takes that final right hand from joshua

 

If they were stupid/unlucky enough to take it flush like that?

Yes, they go down - straight up realism.

The reality is, though, that Usyk is too hard to time, Fury rolls with punches too well and Ruiz offered too much threat for Joshua to risk committing to a punch that hard.

 

Fury gassed and got hit by an assumed harder puncher who made his reputation for brutal KO power by knocking out static cans...

It's a leap to assume those were harder punches OR that Wilder is the harder puncher, let alone both at the same time - albeit these are assumptions that lots of casuals and hardcore Wilder fans encourage.

The recovery was most definitely impressive, though.

And which part of that doesn't fit with "Ruiz offered too much threat for Joshua to risk committing to a punch that hard.", exactly?

Ruiz fought well in #1, and Joshua didn't risk committing to anything like that punch in #2 - he went in safety first to get his belts back and GTFO there.

I didn't say it... And yes, hyperbole often is...

That doesn't change that it'd put down pretty much anyone if they were stupid enough to take it as flush as Francis did.

We just don't know that - he's knocked out plenty of decent fighters, which means his power is clearly above average.

The difficulty is that the other big punchers in the division have either knocked out 99% cans (Wilder) or only knocked out one contender (Zhang, Joyce)...

We just don't know who actually hits hardest - and we probably never will because of their styles and how willing they are to fully commit to their punches under actual fight conditions.

Of course, if you find it simpler to latch onto Wilder mythology than admit we just don't know who actually hits hardest, you carry on - I won't/can't stop you.