Anthony Joshua vs. Francis Ngannou •

There are some boxers who aren't known as major punchers in the context of boxing. But their punches would have a lot of effect on a normal person and certainly would also have effect on somebody like you said perhaps an MMA fighter who isn't used to taking punches. For example Floyd Mayweather stopped Conor McGregor. Floyd who hadn't scored many knockouts of late, was in his 40s and was essentially coming off the couch. Floyd was the snappier puncher in that match, And in the final two rounds Connor was gassed and the punches were becoming more effective from Floyd.

 

Conor just got tired, he didn`t look too bad for the first few rounds, he`s a very quick fighter but he movements were too explosive and naive.

 

Floyd allowed that in my opinion. When ever Floyd started taking things seriously he bothered Conor.
McGregor's punches were pushing shots with no snap on them which actually surprised me.
I understand he got tired, that's the thing. When you get tired of course as we know it's easier to get stopped.

 

I respect all these views and discussions, but let's be real. Let s go back in the calender year 2007:

- Vitali and Wlad Klitschko would have defeated K-1 dominator Semmy Schilt and MMA dominator Fedor Emelianenko in boxing,
- Schilt would have defeated the two Klitschko's and Fedor in K-1,
- Fedor would have defeated the two Klitschko's and Schilt in MMA.

And anyone who sees it otherwise is simply not realistic. Sure some upsets can happen, but if a top guy is in his field in a good shape (what Fury wasnt against Ngannou), there is less to nothing to do for someone from an other field.

Combat sports which involve kicks have a complete different range as boxing for example. The fighters stand usually more away from each other, there is more room.

Some people say if the fight is not on the ground, the boxer would always win. Really? Would AJ beat a prime Semmy Schilt in an K-1 fight? Schilt ist 6'11" tall weighing around 280 lbs, and he was incredibly skilled with his height. He used his body to his full advantage, long range jabs, very strong kicks and devastating knee strikes.

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Or what would happen if Jones starts to kick AJ, Fury, WIlder etc. to the knee caps like this:

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Bruce Lee once said the longest weapon of a human being is a low kick to the knee, the longest weapon to the nearest target, and that s the way it is. A leg is stronger and longer as an arm, and when i see this clip here from Jones, i say Wilder s skinny legs wont take 3 of these kicks before it's so much damaged that he goes down.

Fury has also very thin legs and i doubt he can take many kicks. Especially the knee cap is as much vuneralbe on any human being, dont matter how big, small, thick or thin you are.

I mean i like boxing the most, but now saying like AJ vs Ngannou in the octagon would be 50-50 or even AJ the favorit is weird.

Be it David Haye, AJ himself or Tony Bellew, they all said in an octagon the MMA guy wins. And especially Bellew is usually not so humble, Haye only some times.

Carl Froch said not long ago if he would fight McGregor in the street, he would bite him (advice from B. Lee too when grappling comes into play). I would tell Carl against McGregor it would maybe work since he is not a world class grappler. But if Khabib would get a hold on Froch, i dont think he will be able to bite him, Khabib is too skilled in grappling.

And so or so:

Dont matter if now or 1 year ago. To me Bones Jones is the Nr. 1 MMA HW in the world and not Ngannou. I am very sure Jon would beat Francis.

 

Jone Jones (a boring guy with an extreme deficit in charisma) actually also has skinny legs.
Lucas Brown, Dillian Whyte, Shannon Briggs, Butterbean, Ray Mercer to an extent etc All had it in their capacity to somehow deal with leg kicks. If somebody gets the training then I think we extrapolate from that. I don't think we can make an accurate prediction by suggesting that for example Wladimir Klitschko would go into an MMA fight without having any training in it. I assume he's bright enough to brush up on some of the other disciplines before going into this hypothetical fight. I assume that about essentially all the boxers we have mentioned here.

 

I'm not so sure of that. MMA regularly attracts top level grappling talent as it's about the only decent paying professional sport where they can ply their trade. Both Pride and UFC have had Olympic medallists from judo and Greco Roman wrestling compete in their ranks, and almost from the off the UFC was attracting some really high level former collegiate wrestlers.

Regarding the initial part of your post Joshua would not only have to learn how to defend against takedowns but how to defend against kicks, knees and elbows, and dirty fighting in the clinch. One year is not enough time to do that.

 

Yeah but there is a major difference:

Classical Muay Thai kicks aiming for the thigh. Francois Botha was also able to take these kicks even if he said they hurt him very much. He gave the K-1 Champion Remy Bonjasky the hell of a fight in late 2004, and imo this fight here was a draw after 3 rounds and should have go to an extra round:

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10-9 Botha
10-9 Botha
10-8 Bonjasky
= 28:28 draw, but they gave it to Bonjasky

These classical kickboxers and karetekas like Bonjasky, Peter Aerts, Ernesto Hoost, Andy Hug, Mirko Cro Cop etc. used muay thai kicks to the thigh, and that's the kicks Brown, Mercer, Briggs, Butterbean etc had to deal with.

But these guys didnt use these french savate kicks that Jones is using. They are aiming for the painfull and vunerable knee cap, not to the more massive and tougher thigh.

The knee cap is much more vuneralbe as the thigh. And dont matter who you are or how big, small, thick or thin you are, the knee cap has the same vunerability.

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Since muay thai was so popular in the 80s and 90s, it seems many MMA fighters still think these roundhouse kicks to the thigh are the most effective kicks. But they should ask themselfs why people like Botha, Mercer etc could take them so well without being hurt so much. The answer is simple: Because they arent so effective even if the look cool.

The thigh is the second strongest muscle in the whole body since they are basically the base to hold your bodyweight up when standing, running or walking, only the muscles of mastication are stronger as the thigh.

Jones found that out and prefers these savate knee cap kicks over the muay thai thigh kicks, and the success gives him right. He only lost once, and this was a DQ throgh ilegal ellbows, so it wasnt really loss.

Like punches to the head should aim for chin/jaw or temple, not for forehead or cheekbones. Kicking to the thigh is like punching to the forehead, both areas are very tough and can resist much. But temple, chin/jaw and knee cap are weak spots.

 

Joshua would KO both of them, from the looks of it. PDQ

 

I like that line of thinking, though I think the reason MT kicks were so prevalent in sports like K-1 is simply that they were easier to consistently land, and less prone to being countered. Look at this fight between Francisco Filho and Rick Roufus. Roufus throws push kicks to the kneecaps and Filho just moves his legs a bit and counters with a Kyokushin roundhouse to the thigh. This repeats for three rounds until Roufus has to capitulate due to the damage.

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So there are pros and cons to both techniques.

 

I think thats a good argument!

I didnt mean these thigh kicks are complete uselss. My point was more the knee cap is more vunerable as the thigh, and most kickboxers, thai boxers etc rarely kick to the knee.

Cro Cop landed a cool TKO with a knee kick againt the biggest MMA fighter ever, Hongman Choi. He kicked him in the back of the knee.

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Choi took the hardest low kicks to the thigh from Jerome Le Banner, Schilt, Bonjasky and Hari without going down once. But Cro Cop s kick to the back of the knee did the job.

 

Which two?

Bonjasky and Rountree?

 

The white guy and the black guy, throwing low kicks. Incoming

 

oh my god, bruh plz shut up you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

A lot of those thigh kicks though tended to be aimed at the inside of the leg, just above the knee joint, which is an extremely sensitive and vulnerable area which also contains a lot of veins and blood vessels. The ones on the outside tended to be to the thinnest part of the thigh rather than the meaty part higher up, and often had a destabilising effect on the knee joint. Look at any of the top kickers from that period, Hoost probably being the best example. His kicks almost hooked round the back of the leg, but almost always cause massive joint damage as well as muscular bruising. Other great leg kickers like Filho and Hug also aimed their leg kicks at the side of the joint or the inner knee.

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Le Banner and Hari I wouldn't say were particularly good/accurate kickers. Well Hari could be, but he was also prone to extreme sloppiness. He was kind of like the Wilder of K-1.

 

You mean Schilt and Jones?

Ok.

Some people in a german boxing forum today wrote nobody claims AJ would be the favorite against world class K-1 fighters in K-1 or world class MMA fighters in MMA. I told them there are ppl in english forums who think so. You underline it .

Do you also think AJ would KO Fedor Emelianenko in an MMA fight? I hope you dont. Would be the biggest circus joke of all time.