Mike Tyson had a better career than Larry Holmes.

you mentioned one, my friend, I asked about the 15 better than Tyson. But Holmes didn't win 10 fights in a row against the best, he gave the titles to other fighters instead of fighting them. He didn't fight Tubbs, Tate, Thomas, Page... he was left with one title and even the weakest challenger Tyson was better than Rodriguez, Randall Cobb, Scott Frank, Le Doux, Zanon and several others.

 

From Norton to Cooney, 13 wins against either ranked contenders, champs or former/future champs.

All title fights.

 

Magic names...
Tyson fought 15 top fights in 5 years, which is a better result than anyone else's. His weakest rival at that time was Henry Tillmann, who beat him in the amateurs and was still a strong name. Stronger than Pierre Coopman, Wepner, Albert Sosnowski or Scott Frank. He didn't fight Dokes? Well, if he fought Dokes instead of Ruddock, would you feel better? didn't fight Whitearspoon? but you probably know who stood in the way? James Smith. Holyfield ok, but you know it's more of bad luck, Evander was obligated only after the Tyson-Williams fight and the fight was contracted.

 

Can you remind me which year Scott Ledoux, Alfredo Evangelista, Leroy Jones or Zanon were champions?

 

We're getting away from the main topic of the discussion. You said, it's crazy to put Tyson out of the Top 10. I showed you 14 guys that can be rated higher than Tyson. I don't necessary think they are, I have Mike at number 9, but there is an argument to be made there.

 

They were all ranked contenders, as I wrote above.

None of what I've written, or will write, is meant disrespectfully.

 

I have Mike ranked at #9 too; after Frazier but ahead of Liston and Wlad.

 

Holmes beat more Top 10 guys than Tyson tho.

 

Same here, I got Frazier at number 8 and Wlad at number 10.

 

ok, but please tell me which of Tyson's 10 rivals, from the fight with Berbick to the fight with Douglas, was Zanon, LeDoux, Evangelista or Ali better than?

ok ok but as I wrote in this thread - Tyson won against 10 top contenders in a row. Without a single class Phil Jackson, Ron Stander, Jean Coppman, Joe Roman, Scott Frank, 10 top fights and the vast majority of them are dominant victories, right? he didn't lie with someone like Corrie Sanders, Bert Cooper, Chuck Wepner, he wasn't knocked out by Oliver McCall in the 2nd round... I don't know what your argument could be if that's not the case. Find those 15 or even 8 who did it the way he did and I'll admit you're right... but you won't find

 

But his run in the 80's is only a small part of his career. And it's not the only measure of greatness. So what Ali had Coopman in the 70's when he had Foreman and Frazier. So what Frazier had Stander when he had Ali.

I'll give you one example. Mike was a champion for around 3.5 years. In the first 2.5 around his reign Larry Holmes fought:

Earnie Shavers for the title shot - ranked number 6,
Ken Norton for the WBC belt - ranked number 1
Alfredo Evangelista - ranked number 8
Ossie Ocasio - ranked number 9
Mike Weaver - perennial Top 3 guy
Earnie Shavers again
Lorenzo Zanon - ranked number 7
Leroy Jones - ranked number 6
Scott LeDoux - ranked number 10
Muhammad Ali - returning lineal champion

That's 10 straight fights against Top 10 ranked opponents beaten in the shorter timespan than Tyson

And even after that you have:

Trevor Berbick - ranked number 7
Leon Spinks - ranked number 3
Renaldo Snipes - ranked number 10
Gerry Cooney - ranked number 2
Randall Cobb - ranked number 9

That's 14 Top 10 fights in a row in the span of 5 years. Lucien Rodriguez bout breaks this streak.

 

Holmes is a strong example, one of the best, very long-lived, who was really strong even at the age of 40, Tyson, at a younger age, was just an old name. He won more fights than Tyson and never became as much of a clown as Mike, he maintained a high level until the end... But do you really think that Holmes or anyone else was as dominant as Tyson over the course of 3 or 5 years, who beat better opponents in a better style ? Does anyone think Scott Le Doux would have beaten Carl Williams, Tubbs, Bruno, Holmes, Spinks when they fought Tyson? Scott Frank would do this? I still repeat - Tyson has the best 10 wins in a row of all HWs. Even if he lost the rematch with Trevor Berbick 10 times, it wouldn't change anything...
Someone wrote that Holmes won against James Smith in a better style... I don't think so, Tyson also dominated Smith, but it doesn't matter. Holmes fought for the title against Carl Williams, Michael Spinks, Trevor Berbick. He had very equal fights with two of them, he dominated Berbicka, but he didn't even shake him for 15 rounds and he was in his prime... I think he even called him the strongest fighter he ever fought. What did Tyson do with Berbick, Williams, Spinks? In total it took him about 7 or 8 minutes, I don't want to count. Holmes fought them for 3 difficult hours, there must be a difference, right? Would you really find 8 guys who would do the same? There has been no one in 30 years who would have done to Holmes what Tyson did

 

Hello old friend I knew you'd show up lol.

All Holmes opponents from Norton to Cobb were ranked contenders. I take that to mean they're among the best in the world at that time.

Not meant facetiously.