Joe Frazier does not beat AJ and you can't convince any reasonable person otherwise

You assume too much.

 

I agree with your conclusion but elite HWs Joshua size or larger are quite rare and I don't think Frazier would have much trouble with AJs opponents. If you look at said opponents they are not that much bigger than what Frazier was used to.

 

Joe Frazier does not beat AJ and you can't convince any reasonable person otherwise

One might have said the same of Andy Ruiz prior to his first fight against AJ.

They might’ve gained some fair traction with that sentiment also. But Ruiz actually blew AJ away. “Yeah buts...” after the fact of the fight don’t count.

In the rematch, AJ fought very timid and Ruiz fought VERY fat. It wasn’t completely a case of proving AJ’s superiority when boxing with due caution - it simply wasn’t the same Ruiz from the first match also.

AJ had already been bitten and he was therefore X 10 times as shy second time around.

Already said but Ruiz is no more than 6 feet tall. He also isn’t Joe Frazier, so Joe can’t be dismissed out of hand - as the thread title implies.

Big assumptions being made re AJ being stronger than GF. Foreman’s strength was transcendent of his own impressive size so comparing relative sizes doesn’t cut it.

Holyfield fought SHWs in Bowe and Lewis and YET, Evander nominated Foreman as THE strongest guy he faced - correct?

Sure, I anticipate the response to highlight that we’re talking first career Foreman - he was just as strong then IMO.

At just 21 yo, < 220 lbs, he threw strongman and weight lifter Chuvalo across the ring like he was a rag doll. The vision is clear, it can’t be refuted.

Of all the guys he fought, Quarry nominated Foreman as the strongest also - per sparring I believe. I don’t think GF’s strength is being exaggerated or raised to mythical status - it simply was what it was.

So AJ is bigger, he lifts, and perhaps roids and...but...what can he actually lift? Don’t assume - provide stats IF there are any. If no stats available, move to his performances in the ring and where his strength has actually been demonstrated.

Does he have muscle stamina and how well can he apply his strength in multi directional terms?

Also, there are no affording set ups during a fight to accomodate a fighter replicating his one off, PB lifts that he managed in a gym.

It’s a whole different ball game when you’re talking “as you go” effective strength, as applied during the course of a fight.

 

Also stronger then AJ:

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I am mystified to exactly what point Joshua became an ATG rocket-launcher puncher with a granite jaw and the unbreakable will of a Roman Centurion?

Evidently, the OP saw it happen. I am not even arguing the point, just bewildered that it happened and I missed it.

 

I don’t think anyone is saying that sensibly.

 

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Yeah lean and fluffy.

 

So you use a photo of Foreman mid punch in black and white and he still looks smaller? Why does this bother you folks so much…

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You making GF sound like a wimpy weakling is the issue I have. He was clearly a naturally big powerful man with unnatural strength even for his size (and he weighed 220lb+ a lot more regularly than the 217lb weight you seem focused on).

But my point was to prove that he wasn’t flabby, fluffy, lean or whatever terms you choose to slight him. He was a solid, big and strong man and even in his late 40’s wasn’t getting pushed around by steroid enhanced men in their 20’s.

 

You take issue with me saying George Foreman is smaller and weaker than Anthony Joshua who is freaky and on a lot of PEDs? GF was about 215-220lbs he wasn’t as physically strong and that’s okay he didn’t train the same way and it’s really not a big deal but it’s a fact.

 

Until Anthony Joshua lifts a cow, you cannot make a case of him being stronger than Big George. That's just science.

 

But what if I told you that AJ fought a cow for a bottle of whisky?

 

That would convince me.

Seriously though, just to barge into the discussion: Foreman was 24 or so years old when he fought Frazier. Instead of the PED breeding bull from the Francis fight, he should be compared to the Joshua from around the Olympics, but that version barely looks better than the 18-years old George from Mexico City in 1968

 

I use the versions of the fighter that are in there primes and what the scales say. I don’t rely on guessing or assuming fake weights like when folks call Foreman a natural 230lber who’d be the size of Bruno today etc. maybe but that’s not who fought in the ring.

 

To be fair Foreman's career was very fractured. Point taken tho.