Joe Frazier does not beat AJ and you can't convince any reasonable person otherwise

In my opinion Frazier gets blown away by Joshua because he's a much smaller man trying to swarm a bigger much more powerful fighter. Ends just like the Foreman fights.

 

That's a really really well thought out and constructed post. Multiple great points.

 

Nailed it in the first line.

Joshua looks impressive against willing dance partners to his tune, but can appear decidedly ineffective when someone enters the ring intent on bringing their own groove.

 

He was extremely green when dropped by Bonavena, and improved vastly later on which is why Bonavena didn't have much success in the rematch.

Foreman fought a somewhat past prime Frazier and more importantly was a horrible stylistic matchup for him. He had a very unique game plan, with shoving Frazier into his range, and forcing him to reset every time he got inside.

Joshua also lacked Foreman's jab, which was equally detrimental to Foreman's gameplan.

Also regarding Frazier not "eating the right hand that Ruiz did after being knocked down.", he took far harder shots from Foreman in both fights, and even remained on his feet for some of them (including a particularly nasty 1-2 in the rematch that I'm still very shocked he took and remained upright).

Foreman also shook off Frazier's hooks like they were nothing. Joshua certainly doesn't have the chin for that.

 

The tactic failed because he was past his prime in both bouts, and of yeah facing the greatest of all time.

 

Frazier was past his prime for both fights.

Their is zero chance in hell Holmes sweeps Frazier. He struggled with far lesser guys like the 19-8 Weaver, Renaldo Snipes, an aged Norton, etc. Despite people waxing lyrical about his jab, many mediocre opponents got past it with varying degrees of success, including the aforementioned men, along with guys like Berbick who had success in nearly every round, just not enough to actually win them.

 

Excellent post as always Pugs!

 

Ali was Olympic champion 4 years before Frazier, plus exile. And he was past prime.

 

I have no idea what you mean regarding Olympic champion.

And yeah Ali was past prime, but again he was the greatest of all time and still better than everyone else around.

 

You’re too kind but thanks Swag!

 

Frazier was green yes, but the fight proves that you didn't have to be as big a puncher as Foreman to drop him. He improved as an overall fighter between their two fights but I doubt his chin got so much better to the point where somebody like AJ wouldn't be able drop him.

Frazier was a little past prime against Foreman yes but only a little. He hit his absolute peak against Ali and the Foreman fight was a little under two years after that. I highly doubt he would have done much better had himself from 2 years ago fought that same Foreman.

In regards to Foremans game plan, I don't think a Joshua would need to use that exact gameplan to beat smokin Joe. It would make it easier but I don't think he needs it. Joshua's so much bigger that all he would really need to do to diffuse Joe's style would be to hold whenever he got close.

Foreman had things that Joshua lacked sure but Joshua also has things that Foreman lacked. For one he's obviously much bigger. He's better defensively than Foreman. He's a faster more explosive athlete than Foreman. He has better punch technique than Foreman. He's a better counterpuncher than Foreman. He may not have Foremans jab but he still has a very good jab. Same goes for his uppercut, which Frazier proved to be vulnerable to. Joe took shots from Foreman but he was still dropped multiple times and stopped twice. Against a very hard punching guy like Joshua who has a much larger frame and would have a 30-50lb weight advantage, I don't see Frazier handling those shots any better than he did with Foreman.
And Frazier would be capable of hurting Joshua but would he ever actually manage to do so? I think he could've certainly hurt Foreman aswell but Iirc he basically never landed a good left hook on Foreman, atleast not in their first fight, and so he never hurt him.

 

I have no problem with people saying AJ can beat Frazier but do you all really think it will go down like the Foreman bout?

 

Frazier in or out of his prime didn't have anything to do with it. Ali simply figured him out in the 2nd fight and learned how to neutralize the only tool Frazier had: the left hook.

 

It feels kind of weird to be saying Joshua might win this...since Frazier is on another level when it comes to stamina, toughness, and will...but the size difference is impossible to ignore. It's been awhile since we've had a <6', <210 swarmer make it to the top of the Heavyweight division, and I suspect that will be extremely rare going forward, if we ever see it again at all.

I'll stick with AJ as my tentative pick here, but it would be interesting if this makes it to the back half of the fight.