Prime Sonny Liston vs Prime Evander Holyfield, 15 rounds.

In Ali’s corner, he was screaming how there was something in his eyes, and his team was trying to wash it out with a sponge.

You could clearly see Ali slow down, constantly pick at his eyes during the entirety of the round. Surprisingly, he was able to survive the rest of the round.

Folley and Valdes also claimed they were blinded against Liston, you should look up that too.
So 4 fighters said they were blinded against Liston and you're somehow trying to discredit that and make us believe it's not true?
Liston was just a coward who quit twice and blinded people.
I know you Liston paroles are butthurt, Mcvey,Swag,you etc but truth can not be deleted from existence.

 

It seems easy to picture Holyfield defending and slipping out when Liston gets in and starts teeing off, but at the same time I don't think Holyfield ever had his arms rocked like that and it would wear on his guard throughout the fight, Liston would likely adapt his timing to throw less shots that miss or get blocked, Holyfield would have to be careful on the inside and not stick around there too long, Holyfield was probably more technically skilled than Liston in a few areas, but any clash is still going to be pretty high risk, I think if you put Liston in place of Bowe for the famous round 10 Liston rather decisively finishes him, he would not let Holyfield come back in that situation

 

Almost everyone who faced Liston was impressed with how skilled he was, and his discipline to fight within a game plan.
That's the key difference between he and Holyfield. Holyfield, especially when he faced an opponent that had the reputation of prime Liston would have the tendency to be overly aggressive.
And make mistakes as he did Against Bowe and multiple opponents like Cooper, Dokes and others were he got into fire fights, and didn't need to.
That would be a deadly mistake against prime Liston.
I can envision Liston, fighting behind that ATG jab. Frustrating Holyfield by keeping him at the end of it. Holyfield, as was his tendency, would began to seek exchanges, which would be a mistake against Liston. Liston would have the advantage of fighting behind his jab, a jab that may have equaled most heavyweights power punch in its force.
Liston, fighting with in himself, and fighting a opponent he doesn't need to chase. Would be in his wheel house.
His better jab and overall power with give him the necessary advantages to get the win over the relentless but wreckless Holyfield, Giving Liston the victory.

 

You originally said Liston blinded TWO fighters.

Now you’re up to FOUR.

Are the numbers involved in this accusation rising exponentially - will your next post nominate EIGHT victims, before eventually covering off on every opponent on Liston’s record?

So you are trying to search for accusations as you go - to satisfy the confirmation bias - because you certainly didn’t mention Valdes and Folley in the first instance.

Please at least provide primary sources for the Valdez and Folley accusations - meaning the actual quotes of them claiming that Liston blinded them and when they claimed it.

Who are you gonna accuse Liston of having blinded next - Ray Charles?

Hit the road Jack...

 

Dying LOL!

Post of the year (no disrespect meant to anyone, but I was spewing coffee out my nose after I read the above.) Standby for the upcoming Netflix series "Mysteries Solved: Ray Charles"

 

You should research older forum threads and you can find about how Valdes and Folley calimed that they were blinded.
I said only two because those two were most famous cases about blinding and you are trying to tell me that they are not but what happens is that I found several more cases about Sonny blinding his opponents.

 

Thanks.

I appreciate that you went to the effort to provide your sources.

However, they don’t constitute as evidence. They are second hand and from a forum.

I’ve read plenty of different things claimed on forums but I’d never quote same as gospel - and certainly not without at least seeing the source evidence myself.

I’ve previously read of claims claiming that Folley and Valdez claimed they were blinded -

However, I’ve never read a direct quote from the fighters themselves. - a primary source.

At one stage, I’ve read even Cleveland Williams being thrown in as a claimant - but no evidence provided of Cleve actually claiming it himself.

Again, Machen’s belated claim was a bandwagon jump post Feb 64 Miami. Had he made the claim circa 1960, that would clearly change the treatment of his claim.

IF claims by other fighters were actually made its very important to know WHEN they made such claims.

IF there were/are any direct quotes of any other fighters making such a claim shortly following their bout with Sonny (pre Feb 64), then yes, that would be something to take on board.

IF claims of blinding had been lodged prior to Feb64, then Ali’s blinding would’ve immediately triggered a revisiting to and highlighting of those earlier claims - but that didn’t happen because NO such claims had been made previously.

Rather, we only had Machen lodging his claim well AFTER the fact of his fight against Liston and right on the heels of the Feb64 fight between Liston and Ali.

IF anyone else also made such overdue claims, then they too could be reasonably seen to be making an opportunistic false claim (bandwagon jump) to excuse their own previous losses.
-
As to Machen’s claim, again, he could’ve claimed whatever he liked (broken jaw, ear hanging off, etc.) - but then we have the complete film to check his claim.

There is NO evidence of Machen experiencing any eye discomfort let alone his being visually impaired - if you’ve seen otherwise, it would be apt to highlight it specifically (viz: how and when during the actual fight).

 

So according to you no one was blinded, 4 guys were lying about being blinded and their opinion is not valid but your is?
So 4 professional boxers lied about being blinded just because you do not like the fact and sources that they were blinded by Sonny Liston, your almighty hero?
I mean I know you Liston paroles are delusional but this reached the next level.
So Machen is crazy, Ali lied and those two never said that?
You should make your statement like that it would be easier to read.
The only fact that matters is that 4 boxers he faced said they were blinded and even if someone is lying then someone is telling the truth you know, so that means he cheated like every cheater?
So Sonny was not only a quitter but a guy who blinded and cheated against opponents but guess his fans do not like some facts.

 

There is no evidence of discomfort in Resto v Collins but what happened after the fight?
Marciano also did not show eye discomfort but he was blinded too.

 

Yeah all 4 were lying and butthurt because that is your and swag hero, I get it.
Still a cheater, a coward and the guy who quit twice.

 

Even if they said you would find a weak way to discredit what they said so whats the point?