prime Samuel Peter vs prime Joe Fraizer

Mathis 6'3"
Ellis 6'1"
Ramos 6'3"


Peter 6' 2"and 25lbs overweight.
Do you ever answer questions?

 

Don't see Peter being able to deal with Joe at all. I think his looping punches sail over Frazier's head all night, and Joe outlands him maybe 7 or 8 to 1. It's just a matter of whether or not Peter makes it to the final bell, which I see as 50/50. Depends on whether Peter goes into survival mode or not. I'm guessing not. Frazier TKO 11

 

lol so basically 3 guys and he took all night to deal with the other wise mediocre Mathis

 

You don't answer questions so ,I'm out no point in this.

 

You could relax at the Frazier Midget Club for Vertically Challenged Fighters

 

But that "melting chocolate sundae" was much better
on his feet than Peter, also had better endurance.

 

I don't recall Mathis winning much of anything. I think he managed to outpoint Chuvalo at one stage which must have been his career highlight

 

Sam Peters couldn't even beat Eddie Chambers , an overweight and out of shape Chambers at that.

 

Agreed. Mathis has very impressive footwork, defense, and endurance for a fat guy. Peter hit harder and was more durable, that's about it. Totally different styles.

I don't think simply being heavier than Frazier is enough, you have to have some skills to make that size advantage matter. Someone like Lennox Lewis would be significantly more challenging for Frazier than the even larger Valuev for instance.

 

Nor Mario Hereda ,a 5' 10'' 275lbs fat barrel of a Mexican!

 

Their careers were quite similar in the fact of they
beat who most thought they'd beat, they loss to
the fighters they were expected to lose to.
Neither was a world beater.

 

Agree 100%
The reason is obvious , Lewis had great skills
along with great size.
Sam Peter did not. Size queen posters aside,
Frazier's skill level more than makes up for any
size advantage Peter has, as would most ATG
heavyweights over two hundred pounds.

 

Unless you have freakish natural athleticism (power, speed, stamina, etc) simply being large isn't an advantage without the skill and technique o fully utilize it. You can end up just being a big target.

Peter was strong and durable, but very crude and wasn't some sort of huge 1-punch KO artist (more of a heavy handed clubber) and could be a sloppy finisher. He lacked speed, coordination, timing, accuracy, really everything that makes a big guy with power hard to deal with. Peter might be able to buzz, rock, or even drop Frazier a few times, but Peter probably can't actually follow up and finish hin off even if he did. Remember that Foreman was 5x the boxer Peter was, and even he couldn't get a clean KO against Frazier after 6 brutal knockdowns (the ref had to save Frazier from himself). I'm very, very skeptical Peter can land enough consistent, well placed punches to take Frazier out considering how crude he was.

 

I really don't see it as even being close TBH.
Everyone points out what Foreman was able to do to Frazier, but most don't see the details of that fight.
It wasn't just Foreman was bigger and stronger than Frazier, it was HOW he used those size and strength advantages.
The pushing/pulling tactics. Keeping Frazier off balance when he tried to set his feet and start his offense was the key.
It was A physicality we really haven't seen in the boxing ring on that level since. ( Fury did use it against Wilder, and because of it, each fight got easier for him)
But we've never seen Peter use his bulk in that way. He reminds me, ( Most heavyweights in todays game too) of the old Rock em Sock em boxing game of the 70's...... But without the fast pace of it. He and they are that basic.
Same with Anthony Joshua. He doesn't use his physical advantages.
In two fights against Usyk, he never tried to use his physicality. Preferring to try and out jab the quicker, better skilled fighter from distance.
If he fought Ezzard Charles, or Joe Walcott like that, giving them that much room to operate he'd lose to them too.
And especially a true killer like Louis, or Tyson. But he doesn't use his size advantages, he simply hasn't been taught to use it.

It just amazes me how some posters have the assumption just because fighter x ( rather its Peter, Joshua, Wilder, Kleichkos etc)
They will have the same results Foreman did against Frazier because they are "Even bigger than Foreman ".
It's such a simple minded read on boxing, and the many variables, and abilities of fighters throughout history.

 

You are absolutely right about all of this.

Joshua is one of the most frustrating modern super heavies for all the things you've pointed out. I remember Foreman actually reached out to Joshua to offer some tips on how to be more physical and use some of the tricks he had from his career (this was after the Ruiz loss). Joshua declined, and I was disappointed because I knew that even if he got past Ruiz in a rematch, some other guy might hand him another loss if he failed to learn how to use his size to his advantage.

Sure enough, as you pointed out, he gives Usyk plenty of room to breathe and box however he wished. Usyk was able to be cute popping his jab, using lateral movement, throwing flurries, darting in and out, even going to the body against a guy significantly taller and heavier. Perhaps Usyk just had his number, but Joshua would've made him work much harder for the win if he imposed his size on Usyk. It was extremely irritating watching the rematch where Joshua failed to make adjustments and fight like a big man for the 3rd time in a row.

To quote Teddy Atlas: "What the heck is the point in being tall if you're not gonna use it...?". It was as if Joshua (and a lot of modern super heavies) have some sort of mental inhibition preventing them from being more physical and rough. Part of it is that some of those techniques and strategies are lost with time as the old trainers die off, but some of it is common sense. If you're the bigger man, you either need to maintain long range and keep the smaller guy from getting inside, or you need to impose your size on him. Joshua got outboxed the first time, and then continued to refuse to impose his size the 2nd time.