Ali's 5 last title defences

I've never seen the Evangelista fight I also didn't realize it was considered a close fight

As for the other fights.

I had Norton beating Ali by 1 point very close fight with alot of debatable rounds, but I felt like Norton was the better man overall just.....

I had Young vs Ali a draw I would've had Young winning by a point, but he got deducted a point for sticking his head out of the ropes. And I think the deduction was warranted as Young had done it numerous times.

I had Ali beating Shavers by 1 point, Shavers was winning early on and paced himself very well. But I felt like Ali was there for the taking and Shavers didn't do quite enough early to build a bigger lead. Ali comeback well in last 5 rounds and had a big 15th round to just about edge it.

 

What I most remember about the Shavers fight was the right hand he landed in the 2nd round. How in God's name did Ali remain upright taking that sledgehammer punch?? I think that's the hardest shot Ali ever took in his career. The fact he was able to survive that and go 15 rounds not to mention come out victorious is mind blowing!!

 

My man Kenny was badly robbed.
Not sure about Shavers, but maybe he deserved the nod.
Evagelista and Young were close, but I think Ali still managed to edge them.

 

Alfredo Evangelista's full name is: Juan Sanchez Alfredo Villa Lobos Ramirez Evangelista. It's only unusual in that he was born in Egypt.

 

I would also add that a few fights back Lyle was up on points when he was on the end of what he considered a quick stoppage.

Ali really was a shadow of himself post-Foreman, with the exception of the Thrilla', against and equally damaged Frazier.

 

I've only ever scored the 3rd Norton fight against Ali out of his twilight years as champ against those opponents. Norton was busier, landed more, was in control for most of the fight, had better defense, and landed the cleaner punches. Ali wasted a lot of time such as when he comically attempted to become a front-footed power puncher to KO Norton early (with big telegraphed punches), attempted to rope a dope, tried (and failed) to taunt and get in Norton's head, etc. Ali was only staying competitive because of his iron jaw and he still had fairly quick hands to score and look impressive in short bursts.

Jimmy Young...dear Lord I sat through this crap twice and can't bear to watch it again. The first time I had Young just narrowly edging it since he was doing so well defensively and frustrated the hell out of Ali. However on my 2nd viewing a few years later, I remember Young was a little TOO patient and cautious often failing to follow up when he landed something and then letting Ali off the hook. Ali looked horrible and was out of shape, but to his credit he did actually try to keep his championship. Ali was the aggressor in many rounds, or tried to use his legs/lateral movement to maintain control. I scored it slightly for Ali the second time, but I won't have a problem with a draw. It's hard to give Young the benefit of the doubt since he often fought just to survive and do the bare minimum without doing much in return, ducked his head through the ropes, covered up, etc.

The Shavers fight I've seen at least 3x. All 3x I gave it to Ali. It was pretty even leading up to the 15th round which I gave to Ali at least twice. Ali landed the cleaner punches, has better accuracy, and finished the round strong.

I can't even remember much about the Evangelista fight honestly. If the issue was that Ali was mostly just jabbing his head off and barely landed more punches overall, then that's up to the taste of the judges. This can be a big issue of contention in fights between young prospects who have their 0's on the line because some of them bring a jab heavy style from the amateurs and it clashes with an aggressive volume puncher leading to weird scoring. Another example of this is Canelo vs Lara which is still controversial.

 

The Lyle fight has its detractors too, yes.

Young deserved to lose his fight with Ali, independent of the scoring. His conduct was realistically in DQ territory.

 

He looked awful in the second Spinks fight. You knew he wanted desperately to win. He was dead serious, but all he had left was a weak, flicking version of his former jab. In 1975 he could still punch pretty well. He thumped Lyle with some hard right hands. But after Dunn the following year he seemed to lose what was left of his power. His clown act had grown tired. He wasn't fooling anyone but the judges, who were straining to give him decision wins. Shavers finished him. Nobody could've taken those punches without suffering brain damage.

One of the precepts of Buddhism is that absolutely nothing should be clung to. Not even life or the self should be clung to.

Some of you may remember an article that was written around 1982 by Mark Kram. It may have been in Vanity Fair. A passage in it focused on his slurred speech, spittle at the corner of his mouth and a blankness in the eyes. By then Ali apparently understood what had happened. "I got lost", he said.

 

Ali had a big payroll to meet. The business of Muhammad Ali wasn't being run efficiently. He probably felt a sense of responsibility to all those people he was supporting and their families. So he was going to keep the money coming in for as long as he could. Also, as Howard Cosell mentions during the Evangelista fight broadcast, Ali's breakup with wife #2 meant he needed money. Some of you may recall that in Manila he gets mixed up with a flashy woman -- a film noir femme fatale type -- while he is training for Frazier 3 and he's openly violating his marriage vows in front of the whole world. His wife gets wind of this, shows up unannounced, surveys the scene and contacts her lawyer. How stupid can a man be?

 

Ali , a chubby 221lbs clearly won the Evangelista fight .

• Referee: Harry Cecchini 71-65
• Judge: Terry Moore 72-64
• Judge: Ray Klingmeyer 72-64

 

I think that was Veronica, who eventually became - for a few years, at least - the third Mrs Muhammad Ali

 

Using the five-point must system (which sucked ... lots of math required), that's still a close fight.

The winner of a round gets five points. Even rounds are five points. The person who loses the round can get anywhere from 4 points to 1. (No automatic 4 points for losing the round - unless you were Ali. They usually gave the loser of the round 3 or 4 points. If you got knocked down, 2 points or 1. So scorecards were all over the place.)

So a 71-65 score (for example) translates to:
Ali - 6 rounds
Evangelista - 4 rounds
Even - 5 rounds

(6 rounds gives Ali 30 points / 5 even rounds gives him another 25 (55 total) / and 4 points for each round Evangelista won gives Ali another 16 points = 30 + 25 + 16 = 71)

(4 rounds gives Evangelista 20 points / 5 even rounds gives him another 25 (45 total) / and Evangelista received 3 POINTS in 4 of the rounds Ali won / and 4 POINTS in 2 of the rounds Ali won (totaling 20 points) = 20 + 25 + 20 = 65)

Nobody knew who Evangelista was. He was coming off a loss in his last fight (to Zanon). It was one of Ali's "free TV fights" during sweeps week that were viewed as little more than exhibitions.

Ali could make a face and land a couple jabs and two judges would give him a round, at that point.

Still, the judges only had Ali winning 6 of the 15 rounds - not even half the rounds (which isn't that different than the Young fight.)

Winning only 6 of 15 rounds isn't really "clearly" winning. That's a lot of grey area to fill in with those even rounds.

I haven't watched it forever. I've certainly never sat down and scored it. But I remember fans even back then writing letters to the boxing magazines saying "maybe" Ali didn't "exactly" win that one? The problem was Evangelista didn't "take it" from Ali like Leon would end up doing ... just going all out ... throwing caution to the wind.

But, still, if you didn't know who either guy was, like a lot of fights, it could probably go either way.

 

He should have retired after the thrilla for good. That was his final act. There was nothing else worth to add to his career/legacy.
AIi's last five years as a boxer are a tragic and sordid cautionary tale about the worst side of boxing: hubris, decadence corruption and just plain exploitation.