Is there any 180-199 pounder that could have done better against 1965 Ali

Well Durham said so just like Quarry was in 180 but drinked water to weight 190 plus pounds

 

His actual fighting weight was 195-200 but he ballooned with water just to make himself heavier for weighing and Quarry did the same thing.
Again it was Yank Durham that stated this, but I guess you were there and you know better than him?

 

Source?

 

Joe Frazier with better abs.

 

I found that on this forum and you can find it online on some random site.
Same goes for Quarry who was natural 180.

 

So, no source then. Again.

I don't think Hank Durham said Joe Frazier drunk water in the lead up to his fights to increase his weight by 6-20lbs (goodness me, I can't believe I've taken you seriously enough to actually type that, more fool me). If you claim he did, the onus is on you to provide a primary source.

Frazier weighed in excess of 200lbs for every fight of his prime. That's a fact & a matter of record.

So, here's my dilemma, I need to decide which of the below two scenario's are most likely. Either:

1) That Joe Frazier, a world class professional athlete competing in what was already a multi-million dollar sport, drunk such copious amounts of water in the lead up to the weigh-ins, that he put on between 6-20lbs in each & every fight during his prime, despite the obvious detrimental impact that would have on his performance later that same evening, for absolutely no benefit. OR

2) You:
a) Have either misread, misunderstood or misremembered something you've read.
b) Have read an unreliable secondary source.
c) Are a troll.

Hmmmm, quite a dillema.

Of course, I jest. It's obvious to anyone honest person with even an iota of intelligence it's not scenario 1 and regardless of which of the options from scenario 2 apply (I strongly suspect it's c), I'll not waste any more time and effort on you. So make your response(s) to this post a good one, as it will conclude our exchange.

 

As others have said, there are several. If you include Louis, who is on the cusp (& I personally consider to be in the 200+ category), you arguably even have a starting favourite against prime Ali.

Marciano, using Frazier as an analogy, is probably the best choice among clear sub-200lbers. Ali himself said so, & while Boxers talk a lot of rubbish, he’s always come across to me as sincerely believing that.

But the first guy to spring to my mind as a very live underdog was Dempsey. He presents an interesting kind of hybrid almost - fighting out of a crouch like Marciano or Frazier, but giving up some of their endurance & lasting power in exchange for a much more high octane offense (& a lot more explosive than 1964-65 Liston, at that). Of course Dempsey didn’t have poor conditioning either, just not on the level of a Marciano or Frazier. He could, on the other hand, be more spontaneously violent, & guess what? He’s got the best left hook in the division’s history, which as we know, is the ticket with Ali.

I would certainly favour Ali, but next to Marciano, I think Dempsey could surprise people here.

 

What makes Conn interesting is that he begun fighting as a teenager, against middleweights and then light heavyweights which means he was very well adapted to fighting very fast opponents.
Him proving his mettle against the two best heavyweights around, Bob Pastor and Joe Louis means that he would be a very difficult opponent for fighters who lacked the punching power to crack his chin.
Ali would be in for a fight.

 

Lol, again treading out the good old - “I guess you were there and you know better than so and so...”.

That’s a very small bag of tricks you have there Mandrake.

Just recently you claimed to know better than Angelo Dundee re the contamination of Ali’s eyes all the way back to Feb64....all over the place, aren’t we?

 

No disrespect Greg, but you might want to see if your speller checker is switched on.

Otherwise, I totally agree...he’s definitely on the sauce...I mean, he has to be, right?

 

God how I wish that the correct to answer, given your options: scenario 1 and scenario 2, A, B or C was for 1 Million Dollars.

I don’t even have to phone a friend...I’m ready to lock my answer in ...

 

I get a lot of my best info from the little notes they insert into Chinese Fortune cookies - I swear by them.

I really only buy them because I love Chinese cookies - but the increased wisdom I am afforded along with each and every cookie consumed is a nice by product.

Delicious and Braintricious!

 

And you are still the guy who was there and know better than judges and fighters themselves and I dont want to bring that Ali was liar, Machen was crazy, Folley and Valdes did not say that just because you do not like what is the truth.

 

Even if I bring Durham himself here you would find a way to discredit him same way Puggy does.
So what even if Frazier was under 200lbs for the most of his fights, would that hurt his legacy?

 

@InMemoryofJakeLamotta seeing yet another one of his threads turn to **** upon @BoxingFan2002' s arrival