1919 Jack Dempsey vs 1960 Sonny Liston

I find the mention of size an odd one here, as some are saying Dempsey is only a Cruiser by modern standards. Dempsey & Liston are both about 6’1”, & are separated by…wait for it…about fifteen pounds. That’s around six measly kilograms. I could run that off in a fortnight if I took the time off work for it.

As I mentioned in a thread involving Kenny Norton (where we were discussing almost an identical amount of weight), I just can’t fathom how people think this amount of weight matters with men of both this size & this calibre of ability.

As I said, I think it’s a very debatable fight, & would surely be a classic. But without fail, Dempsey will be under-estimated by some in such a thread. Based on weight is an odd reason, however.

 

Completely untrue. Liston absolutely belted Patterson on the inside. One of the very few fighters formidable at all ranges.

 

In fantasy fights its customary to imagine the best versions of each fighter.

Dempsey was 187lbs vs Willard. Liston 213lbs for Patterson 1 and 215.5lbs for Patterson 2.

A c.26-28lbs weight difference may not be the determining factor in the outcome of a fight, but it most certainly a significant, material discrepancy.

 

Dempsey was comfortably 195, though. I wouldn’t be narrowing a prime down to one fight. There just isn’t that much difference in size, besides reach.

 

Much as I love Jack. Dempsey s style of going on the attack against a bigger guy could see him hurt early.
Jack will go down swinging tho even if getting battered.

 

I would ask which era rules would be in place, as Dempsey fought primarily in era with no requirement to go to a neutral corner if he felled an opponent, he hovered ready to pounce as soon as the guy left the canvas.

I frankly cannot see prime Mr Dempsey getting the win over a prime Liston, in modern era rules bout.

Mr Dempsey i feel would sit in dressing room post fight uttering "I forgot to duck"

I would have paid to see the bout that is for sure.

 

I'd go with Sonny in a 7-8 round stoppage or KO. Too much reach--too much power--AND too much boxing skill. (I don't think Liston gets nearly enough credit for how good of a technical fighter he was.) Sonny's wrecking ball left jab would be hell on Dempsey--eventually Liston wears him down and goes for the kill.

 

You're right, Patterson and Dempsey were about the same size.

 

Dempsey fought 67 times. Care to guess how many times he weighed 195lbs or more?

 

Hi Buddy.
The way your posts are going, it looks like you are at the embryo stage of a discussion and or a slight disagreement with @Greg Price99 which is fine, it happens all the time here, for future reference , have all your ducks lined up in a row, prepare your case before you put to print, and be meticulous with your facts, and also be prepared to be ever so gently made to see the light, his touch is deft, but unerringly correct most of the time , good luck Ney.
stay safe hombre, chat soon.

 

What is completely untrue? If you ask me I wouldn't describe Floyd Patterson as a very good inside fighter.

 

I’d guess so.

 

Dempsey was taller and had bigger reach.
Patterson is natural LHW and started as a MW while Dempsey was natural 185-190 lbs.

 

Absolutely untrue. Since the advent of the Marquis of Queensbury rules there had been a rule in place for a fighter to return to a corner whether it be a neutral corner or his own corner. Dempsey NEVER fought professionally under rules that allowed him to stand over an opponent. He was ALWAYS in violation of the rules when allowed to do that. Specifically, in Toledo there was a rule in place disallowing this, in New York, in Chicago, in Pennsylvania, etc etc. Essentially everywhere Dempsey fought this rule was in place. That myth, that Dempsey fought in an era without that rule and was unfamiliar with it was entirely made up to give an excuse for why he refused to return to his corner after dropping Tunney in the long count fight. And yet, even in that situation, the rule was in place, was well known, was discussed THOROUGHLY by both camps prior to the bout and was published in the newspapers before the fight in which the rules of the Illinois Athletic Commission were posted. The rules were even included in brochures sold at the fight.