1919 Jack Dempsey vs 1960 Sonny Liston

Weighed slightly less and was about the same height. They were the same size pretty much.

 

Yes, that's right, Jack was typically high 180's during his prime, Sonny low to mid 210's during his.

As I said, c.25lbs, rather than 15lbs, separates these two in their respective primes.

 

Marciano had thicker bones, was wider man too.

 

Yes, indeed, and he would go the same route as Patterson - stopped before one minute. I don't give that old time fraud a chance in hell.

 

Liston inside 6 seconds...

 

I underrate Dempsey due to lack of size, lack of heart, lack of courage, lack of top competition, lack of facing black contenders. (Please, spare me for all the BS about 'those times', 'his promoters didn't want..', blablabla).

 

I know that. But when a poster writes Patterson was "Weak and small".
I was pointing out Dempsey wasn't much bigger than he was.

 

Complete Nonsense. At least be rational about your prejudice.

 

1919 Dempsey was taller, had better footspeed and lateral movement, could fight on the inside, and wasn't afraid. He knocked out bigger men than Liston.

 

I believed for most of Dempseys era that the rule was, that the ref MAY halt the count if standing fighter did not go to neutral corner.

The fact refs did not enforce the rule is another issue, if a fighter can get away it without being required by the ref to comply, then they will do so.

I have no doubt Dempsey and his corner knew of the rule, but ref is the final arbiter within the squared circle at fight time.

Now postfight questions might be asked, as it was with Gallagher who refereed the Dempsey vs Firpo bout, as i believe he got suspended for non enforcing of the rule, but Dempsey still kept the most valuable sporting prize of the time, namely the world heavyweight title.

 

I knew a guy in Denver who sparred with Liston. He was 6'3" and very strong, strongest guy I ever knew. Played football at Navy. He said Liston almost made him cry after a few punches.

Liston by KO late.

 

Ali's prancing around the ring in his second bout with Liston was the main reason for all the confusion in the ring following the knockdown including the count getting all screwed up. Definitely different rules for some at least in Ali's mind.

 

I have NO prejudice at all, Hank, but in order to call yourself a champion, you have to face all the leading contenders, which Dempsey clearly said, he wouldn't. A fraud, a big fraud, if you ask me. He was no more champ than my grandmother. I am white and old, but I am not blinded by fairytales. And, by the way, I think Vitaly K. would beat most former contenders incl. that muslim Muhammad guy.

 

Dempsey had all but cleaned out the division when he fought Willard. Some of his title defenses were rematches. I do understand that the Wills situation was egregious but saying he lacked heart, courage and competition (as well as calling him a fraud who was no better than your grandma) is a bit of a stretch if you ask me especially since you're more than likely making that argument on account of one guy. Outside of Wills there was no heavyweight contender that Dempsey avoided (unless you count MW Greb). You're entitled to your opinion regardless.

 

I agree with everything you said! Jack Dempsey was a terror, who went through the Heavyweight Division (to quote General Patton) "like crap through a goose." I will never judge him by our society, which is about a century removed from his time. I was not alive in the 1920's and have no way of knowing what I would have thought if I had been, anymore than I know what someone in 2124 will think of the choices we make today. I just love watching the films of Jack Dempsey fighting! I will leave judging him to God.