Who do you rate higher Ali or Holmes?

What’s a bubble top ten ATG…?

 

I try to see the good in people. He would never admit it but his bitterness is a function of the fact he felt he could never escape being in Ali's shadow. There's some truth in it.

 

Liston.

 

It’s not close.

Speed: Ali is a 10/10 in handspeed and a 10/10 in footspeed. Holmes is a 8.5 at best. Watch footage of 1967 Ali. He was considerably faster. Advantage: Ali.

Combination punching: Ali threw some of the most marvellous and blistering combinations in heavyweight history vs Liston and Foreman. Holmes was not nearly as creative a combination puncher and often threw standard 1-2’s. Advantage: Ali.

Best wins. Ali: Foreman, Frazier x 2, Liston x 2, Norton x1, Shavers, Lyle, Quarry x 2.

Holmes: Mercer, Witherspoon, Norton, Shavers x 2, Cooney, Weaver, Smith.

Advantage: Ali and it ain’t close.

Let’s break it down punch by punch:

Uppercut : Advantage Holmes
Left hook: Advantage Ali
Right hand: Advantage Ali
Jab: Advantage Holmes

Power: Ali stopped more durable fighters. Bonavena, Lyle and Foreman. Which durable fighters did Holmes stop? Advantage: Ali.


How is this close? Ali is considerably faster, stopped more durable fighters, beat much better overall competition, was a more creative combination puncher, was far better at throwing a lead right hand and absorbing body punches. Holmes had a better jab and uppercut. It ain’t close.

 

Holmes was a fighter with slightly above average talent who maximized his ability through hard work. Ali was a one in a billion natural talent.

 

This is a really good argument. Ali at times looked his 60s self in that fight; in fact, that might have been the closest he came to regaining that form.

Do you mean in the last rounds, when Tim kind of pissed the decision away by playing? Because to me he mostly seemed like a heavier Ken Norton in that fight.

No disrespect, just interested.

 

He's certainly said that, but whenever he talks about Ali he "slips" and call him the Greatest. Proving Larry Holmes is no fool lol.

Being that I'm a heavy metal guy, I consider myself the Kiss-the-Bloody-Goat GOAT of all time.

 

Ali looked as sharp as ever did in the 70s in the 2nd Norton fight, he kept up his movement for all 12 rounds and his punches were sharp. I do not see Holmes being able to cope Ali's movement and speed for 12 or 15 rounds.

Well he tried to do his Ali impression dancing on his toes but obviously was nowhere near as graceful or athletic as Ali.

 

I believe Frazier is always a tough out especially if you believe boxer/swarmer/slugger/rock/paper/scissors approach. I don't believe Norton is as tough an out as he wasn't as relentless.

 

Ali made most of his opponents fight his fight. Frazier made Ali fight his fight. Obviously Norton is better and stronger than Folley but I see a 65-70 fight going the same way.

 

No one beats !!!!!!!!!!!! The Greatest !!!!!!!!!!! for me . To think I once got to shake his hand many years ago

 

What does have to do with anything? The guy said Holmes rates Ali higher than himself and I just said he doesn't. Can you read?

 

Actually, I think Holmes hurts his case to being the GOAT with his geotistical attitude.
I suspect Holmes were more gracious and modest in his declarations he would get a lot more support to his claims to the GOAT title.

 

The good in him is that he had kept his nose clean legally, which is more than can be said for many fighters. That’s about it though. He discusses himself & other fighters with a level of logic my 5-year-old would be embarrassed to use.

 

Ali lost to Leon Spinks. Larry Holmes would never struggle with such a limited fighter