Jerry Quarry vs Cleveland Big Cat Williams, Both Prime.

But he still went 15 rounds with Ali and was never hurt or knocked down.
Williams was knocked down several times and Liston's face looked like potato after Ali's fight.

I gotta ask you again did Williams ever beat anyone close to quality of those fighters?
Even them all are better wins than Daniels and Mittef.

 

Shot or not he never did anything even in his prime other than losing against Liston so you could make look like Liston fought someone good.

 

Coulda, woulda and shoulda don't count but resume does.

 

Lord, people here act like Quarry was an uncrowned top 10 ATG. Tough, game fighter who got some solid wins (and two gifts against Patterson) but IMO was never destined to get to the supreme level of eliteness because IMO he also lacked “something” that kept him from breaking through to that level.

That being said, I like him here, Williams absolutely was the harder hitter … where people get that Quarry had more power makes me SMH … and had a puncher’s chance early on but if it goes past 3 he’s toast.

 

Makes me laugh when people say Williams has no chance when Quarry has lost to fighters worse than Williams in his prime.

 

Should be Quarry really, but Williams had power so I'm not ruling him out totally.

 

Yeah unlike Foster, Williams actually has wins over fighters in the top ten who were actually in the top ten WHEN THEY FOUGHT.

Joiner was little more than a club fighter who lost more times than he won, and never made top ten in his entire career.

O'holloran also lost to several obscure names.

Folley at that stage (actually it was two years earlier so Folley had depleted even further by the time he met Foster), was drawing with the likes of the 12-18 Roger Russell.

 

I acknowledge that Quarry was massively popular when he fought but he’s also massively overrated in hindsight. I remember a recent thread where people were saying he had a chance against 1973 Foreman. He had no chance, zilch, zero of anything but being horrifically knocked unconscious against 1973 Foreman.

 

Two bums aint better than Folley,O'Halloran,Spencer,Joiner and wenting 15 rounds with Muhammad Ali not being knocked down or stopped.
So two more rated bums with losing record are better than Spencer,Jonier and Folley?

They still don't have losing record like Miteff and Daniels together.
And Foster never lost against someone like Satterfield and Terrel.

 

Williams was physically talented (big and fast), but he looked like he didn't have a good base in boxing fundamentals. I think he turned pro in Ga. when he was 15-16, probably with little or no boxing training. Quarry, IMO did not have the physical talent of Williams but he had a good amateur background and good training throughout his career. Quarry seemed to lack concentration/focus at times and could go from winning and setting the pace to suddenly having a lapse and getting nailed.

Quarry had times he got caught in what should have been relatively easy fights. Guys like Preacher/Memphis Al Jones and Joe Alexander hurt him/knocked him down so a big, fast puncher like Williams might do the same or more. If Quarry doesn't get caught by Williams, he should be able to out point Williams. In his fight with Ron Lyle I think I scored either all, or almost all of the rounds for Quarry, but Lyle, was able to hit him throughout the fight and though he didn't land as often, his punches might have been the more damaging. Quarry didn't seem to adapt well in the ring. When Lyle was hitting him with (from memory) a right uppercut/left hook, Quarry didn't adjust to avoid the combination, he continued to get caught by the same combination. I'd probably give a slight edge to Quarry against Williams because he was more fundamentally sound, but I wouldn't bet a penny either way.

 

Stellar post

 

I mean compared to Williams.
I am not saying that Quarry had fantastic ATG power, but IMO he had more punch than Williams, ergo superior to what Williams could show.

 

Well, both men have a fair share of losses to journeymen and also ran contenders.
It is not like you had to be an ATG in order to beat Williams.
Thus, they are more on less evenly paired on that regard.

 

Roy Harris (who fought Sonny Liston and sparred with Cleveland Williams),"my toughest opponent and most dangerous was when I sparred with Cleveland williams."http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ken/Hissner030911.htm

"But at one point in his career, he would have spelled real problems for Ali, because at his height as a puncher, Cleveland Williams hit harder than Liston. Before he got shot, the man was awesome. But afterwards, he wasn't much of a fighter. " Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=DfcPAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT134&lpg=PT134&dq="williams+hit+harder+than+liston"&source=bl&ots=U_vhYf34f8&sig=ACfU3U0-9tFME4JqtaE-xx34tjfj1d-8XA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqlYTguIHqAhUeRDABHQPoDhYQ6AEwAXoECAMQAQ

Ernie Terrell (Who fought Williams twice and sparred with Liston)
His toughest opponent: Cleveland Williams
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-pleAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vVINAAAAIBAJ&pg=4798,539251&dq=&hl=en
:"He was the strongest fighter I ever fought"
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/6048-ernie-terrell-chicagos-heavyweight-champion
"His left hook is poison."
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Sy8_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=9lAMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3337,4585601&dq=&hl=en
"I fought Williams (Cassius Clay's Monday night victim Cleveland Williams twice and I thought that man hit harder than even Liston. But the years were very much on Clay's side." Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/57503132/calgary-herald/

Sonny Liston:......"Williams hit very hard and he was quick"
"He hit as hard as I could."

https://books.google.com/books?id=9...hUKEwjz2eGWs7XpAhWIg-AKHZlGCKgQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ

"two of William's losses came at the hands of Liston, who has said Williams was the hardest puncher he has ever met." https://www.newspapers.com/clip/51090697/sioux-city-journal/

"Williams hit Liston with a left hook that would have finished any other man It would have torn some fighters heads off." https://www.newspapers.com/clip/54152307/fort-lauderdale-news

"Asked to compare Clay and Williams, Daniels said Monday: There's no comparison. Williams hits much harder. I'd fight Clay every night in the week. But that Williams man, he's a load of dynamite." Article clipped from The Salt Lake Tribune - Newspapers.com

Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams has the punch. Some say he hits harder than Sonny Liston. Others go further and claim the Big Cat can hit a man with more force than Joe Louis.

"The big cat is credited with breaking one man's back with a blow to the midsection, punishing Billy Daniels so badly that Daniels has never been the same fighter since, and hitting young Jack Johnson so hard that a blood vessel ruptured in Johnson's forehead."

Article clipped from Carlsbad Current-Argus - Newspapers.com

Ending the career of Tommy Fields with a terrific beating April 7, 1964. Henry Armstrong said Fields was one of the best defensive fighters he had ever seen. Handing Sonny Banks such a merciless beating July' 21, 1964. that might have been responsible for Banks death in his next fight.

Bill Davee, who was in Williams' corner, said Williams gave Banks a murderous beating for five rounds, but did not finish him. Davee said he told Williams after the fifth to finish Banks for his (Banks) own good. Williams knocked him out in the sixth.

Article clipped from The York Dispatch - Newspapers.com

"Curley Lee suffering from incurable brain damage incurred in the Cleveland Williams bout went to a life of crime and murder and is serving time in Napa's hospital for the criminally insane." Fallen Copper - Chap Riese - Google Books

The knockout had the crowd' in stitches. Curley got knocked so high in the air he was horizontal when he crashed to the floor. Also unconscious. Another 'couple of feet and he might have escaped the gravitational and been up there yet. He was out for 20 minutes. They took him to the hospital where they shone lights in his eyes and "recommended a good night's sleep. Curley had already had one. When he got back to L.A.. he thought perhaps he had a bad head cold because every time he blew his nose it brought blood. He had the sensation his eyes were trying to pull out of his head.

He called on his doctor, Wells E. A. Forde, who noticed little things like the fact the inside of Curley's right shoe was wearing out faster than the outside. For some reason, Curley was dragging his right foot.

He sent him to the Queen of Angels Hospital where the reason turned out to be a blood clot on the brain.

Like a lot of others, before him. Curley Lee, occupation prizefighter, was the victim of an industrial accidental - a right to the jaw.

The Doctor Was Stunned It is Curley's recollection the sovereign state of Texas paid for the electro-encephalogram which turned up "disorganization and slowing in the left parietal area a focal 'disturbance in the left parietal area." But the treatment consisted of the prescription: "You better take it easy, kid and, by the way, get used to that headache." Barely .18 months later, Dr. Forde was shocked when he picked up a paper to see where Curley was booked in for a fight at the Olympic Auditorium. He fired off a letter to the boxing commission.

"To me it would seem unthinkable that any consideration should ever be given him for subsequent boxing." He recommended a simple test: "Shake hands with Curley," he urged. His position was, a man too weak to shake hands shouldn't be asked to punch with them. The commission denied Curley a license. Curley went back to stacking potatoes. But lately, even this has become difficult. Curley has taken to suffering blackouts on the street and long red-light trips to receiving hospital where attendants first suspect drunkenness and then detect a form of epilepsy. Either way, there's not much they can do about it.

Curley is just another piece of boxing's flotsam. The walking wounded you see in the foyer any arena selling programs, cadging tickets or borrowing money. It's difficult to find any. one to take the responsibility. But I noticed in the paper the other day where the manager Cleveland Williams was complaining that the top name fighters in the country "would rather go hungry than get in the ring, with my fighter." I should hope so. It's better to be hungry than fed intravenously.
The Spokesman-Review - Google News Archive Search

I look forward to you producing similar testimonies to Quarry's power.

 

Williams has three losses in his prime. One to Ernie Terrell, a disputed split decision loss in Terrell's hometown where the AP scored it for Williams. Williams also went into this bout with a documented injury.

The other two are to Sonny Liston who's hardly a journeyman.

I agree. That's why I'm saying it could go either way. These claims that Williams have no chance is non-sensical. He did far better against Machen and Terrell than Quarry ever would've for won. Also did better against Chuvalo, despite being shot for that one.