Larry Holmes best performance?

Taught me how to drop kick in a shell suit.

 

I think Larry's three best performances in his second career - Mercer, Holyfield and McCall - do more for his legacy than anything in career 1, They were not as good in a H2H sense as the Norton showing, the Cooney or Shavers dismantlings or Cobb masterclass.

For one, Larry beat a man in Mercer who gave two top 10 ATGs in Lewis and Holyfield all they could handle. He did that aged 42 when Mercer was unbeaten.

Then a narrow(ish) loss to 29 year old Holyfield. Then at 45, he barely lost to McCall who was limited but had just blasted Lewis.

As a younger man, Larry's best displays seem to always have an asterisk. Norton was past prime, Shavers limited, Witherspoon green, Cooney green and fragile. I think he gets judged harshly as he was just so hard to like. But in career 2, although he hadn't actually developed any charm, he was an underdog with a belly, getting by on heart and smart.

For me, his performance in the 7th round against Shavers might be his best ever minute in the ring taking it all into context. It's a minute where you wonder who else could have fought like that through such a fog. Ali, maybe. List ends there for me.

 

Based on results, I have to consider Larry's win over Leon Spinks, total domination, with an early knockout win, against a former World Champion. His win over Ken Norton was probably his best overall performance, with Larry overcoming lots of adversity against a World Class opponent (not at his his best, but certainly not totally shot either, and a stylistic nightmare for Larry to overcome as well). His win over former Champion Muhammad Ali was a fine performance, but Ali was obviously only a shell by then.

So, I would go with the Norton win as Larry's best performance.

 

Larry Holmes vs Leroy Jones KO 8, March 31 1980.

 

Eh, he did grow a bit. His interview after losing to Holyfield was the classy, gracious interview he should have given after losing to Spinks.

His second career does give him a fair claim to being one of the top senior fighters -- especially once he really got up there in age and could still fight. I think plenty might favor a prime Joe Louis over a prime Larry Holmes, but who would bet on second career Joe Louis over second career Holmes? On the Tyson who fought Danny Williams over the Holmes who fought Mercer?

And that last fight adds to it. Probably the best performance ever put on by an over 50 in the ring.

 

Great points. He is the 40+ H2H GOAT.

 

Round seven or eight was around the time Ken's right hit Larry's right bicep, turning it into a war, but I agreed with Arthur Mercante during the live broadcast that Holmes should have had Norton sewn up after the first ten rounds. But WBC judges were under enormous pressure to validate their stripping of Leon Spinks and award of their HW belt to Ken in a smoke filled room.

 

Cheers JT, excellent post yourself.

Fighters can have “great” performances in later career but they’re often, though not always, perceived relative to their advanced age.

In absolute terms, their earlier career performances, when at peak, will more likely have seen them at their true best.

I guess sometimes sterner opposition in later career can bring more out of a fighter demonstrably, but they likely had that in their potential in their prime but it simply wasn’t demanded.

Relative measures in boxing are ever present which can make conclusions less finite.

Roberto muddied the waters with his progress through the upper divisions..and when beyond peak - even his losing effort against Hagler over 15 rounds was a stand out.

No matter how well performed he was as a lightweight - could anyone have calculated that he would later give such an ATG MW as Marv such a competitive fight - after an already long career and at that age Roberto was...and, if all that isn’t enough, well beyond his more natural weight.? Crazy.

Re Ali-Williams. That allowed Ali to showcase himself absolutely against an impaired version of Williams - stunning performance and wow factor complexion/outcome.

Also, while aesthetics are nice they shouldn’t be confused with practical applications and their material effects - the old style vs substance, axiom - but against Williams, Ali had both going in buckets, so it was definitely a poster fight for him.

But really, just as I see it, Ali was no different vs Terrell. Just as dazzling and on point. What he did to Cleve for near 3 rounds, he did to Ernie over 15 rounds.

The difference was that Terrell didn’t fall and that actually allowed us more time to enjoy Ali strutting his stuff, round after round and also provided proof that Ali could move, dazzle and punch over the whole 15 rounds when necessary.

That was information that wasn’t actually confirmed during the Williams fight due to its relative brevity.

So, from that perspective, one might rate the Terrell fight even higher than the Williams fight, because Ali demonstrated himself, at his best, over the whole 15 rounds.

Against other truly elite ATGs (including one Smok’n’ Joe Frazier) we might calculate that Ali would need the best part of and perhaps the full 15 rounds to ultimately prevail.

 

Cheers for that. I’d have to take a closer look re that claim. You did mean the right bicep, not the left, correct? Thanks.

Otherwise, it seems Norton laid low for a number of rounds (perhaps too many rounds in hindsight) looking for Larry to tire.

Ultimately, Holmes proved himself to be among the not so common group of ATG 15 round beasts - as Ken did himself - key factors as to why it was such a great fight.

Unless they get KO’d beforehand (of course ), guys like Norton and Holmes give a lot of ATGs absolute hell imo.

You certainly wouldn’t want them hanging around for too long.

 

The fight was of course close, but not quite as tight as history usually remembers IMO. Norton took too long to get going. Holmes built an early lead & though in danger throughout the second half of the fight, never surrendered it.

 

The best part of that was how the camera suddenly swivels at the sound of shouts & screams & Holmes emerges through the darkness like the Cloverfield monster.

 

Vitali obviously is.

 

Beating Norton, Kenny wanted that fight badly so Larry had to put on the performance of his career.

 

Mercer. That was a comeback fight taking on a top guy, and he controlled the fight perfectly despite his age. Just used his jab and won. Made it a relaxed, easy fight. Did something Lennox Lewis couldn't do.

 

Holmes best win was Cooney but remember Cooney fought 2 rds. in 2 years and had his outside the ring issues and never fought beyond 8 rds. Still Holmes best win in his prime.

Shavers could hit but was hittable - he lost to Quarry in 1, stopped by Lyle and beaten by Bob Stalling and others. I love Shavers and he is known for his quick KO over Norton (who was stopped by anyone who could punch beyond the tipping point of power.

Holmes era was overrated and unfortunately Holmes didn't fight the best of his era for whatever reason, still I think he may have prevailed if he had but we will never know because styles make fights.

Holmes had trouble with right hands and was righthanded and beaten by Michael Spinks in Spinks 1st fight beyond 175lbs.