Razor Ruddock vs Jack Dempsey

So I’m out scoring you 4-2 so far, in an era where big men were quite rare.

 

If Ruddock is one dimensional by your own admission - & I agree - why is he someone you consider dramatically better than Firpo? I don’t follow the logic unless you feel Firpo was beyond worthless.

Willard, again, we agree mostly about him but Dempsey thrashed him beyond recognition. He didn’t struggle for a moment, so where’s the criticism?

 

Since you’re slow to pick up the nuance here, I’ll spell it out for you: Dempsey ducked the best available opponent during his reign, Wills, because he was black and posed a serious threat. He also failed to fight Godfrey, who was likely the second best big heavyweight behind Wills, because he was black and posed a serious threat.

 

I said Ruddock was far more dangerous: in other words, bigger, more athletic, almost certainly a clear advantage in power, though there's no way to tell for sure...just my guess based on what I've seen on film.

Do I feel Firpo was worthless? No. We're still talking about him a century later, so he obviously made his mark on the sport. Him seeking out the canvas with every half decent shot from Dempsey, however, along with his crude style, has me believing that he wouldn't have been a factor at all in the 90s. But, to be fair, I haven't seen much else on Firpo.

I'm not criticizing Dempsey at all for the Willard fight. He beat him as thoroughly as could be. The whole, "Dempsey proved he could beat big men" argument, because he beat Willard, is kind of weak IMO. Willard was a poorly skilled punching bag who we never would have heard of if he were around in the 90s. Dempsey's win over him doesn't give us much insight as to how he might have done against Ruddock.

Can't help but wonder what it might have looked like if Ruddock was teeing off on Willard. I don't see Willard getting up 6 times, that's for sure.

 

Possibly if Willard were in the era of full-time professional fighters he may have done better, but I for the most part agree with the above. Good post.

 

You’re slow to spell out the nuance. The issue was you claiming he ducked big men. Now you’ve moved on to Godfrey & Wills & the subject of Black contenders.

 

Yes, if he ducked the two best big men, he did in fact duck big men, inactive field hands and string beans notwithstanding.

 

What more can be said? He fought more big men than he didn’t, & there’s not a scrap of evidence to suggest he ever avoided someone based on their size.

If that’s a win for you, enjoy it.

 

He’d never agree to fight Ruddock.

 

Well we’re putting them against each other in a hypothetical so whether he would or wouldn’t doesn’t really enter into it. The fight is made in this scenario.

 

He’d be fearful, and rightfully so.

 

Of Ruddock? Okay.

 

Totally disagree. Ruddock was big and powerful but very limited. Dempsey had little trouble with big men and Ruddocks not taking the kind of beating Willard did, Dempsey stops Ruddock early.

 

Willard was almost 40 and hadn't fought in three years. Willard also never knocked out any quality fighters early. Goofi Whitaker beats the guy who showed up for the Dempsey fight, if not Butterbean.