Could prime Joe Louis overcome 1974 George Foreman

He’s also never fought a right hand counterpuncher like Schmeling for the rest of his career though, it doesn’t help that Louis basically played into Max’s game by trying to counter him too.

 

I don't really see how Louis could resist Foreman's power and dynamics, Big George hit as hard as Max Baer but was more lively, harder to hit, physically stronger and much tougher. He landed more punches and mixed them up from different angles. They both signaled strikes, but Georga always did it under great pressure, so it didn't matter because he wasn't a hunter, he crushed his opponents with pressing, aggression, and the number of punches delivered from different angles. I'm sorry but this legend would fall. Louis was great, very technologically advanced for his time, but I don't see how he could stop George or avoid his attacks - he was not a clever dancer, a defensive genius. I thought the fight could be similar to Foreman-Frazier

 

Does anyone have/know the scorecards for Louis-Schmeling 1 up to and including round 11?

With some historical scorecards it’s almost as if they’ve been expressly concealed, lol.

A cursory search so far has turned up a comment that Max was “well ahead” by the time of the KO - that’s it, no more, no less.

I also read that before the beginning of the 4th round, Joe was up 3-0 on all scorecards (sourced from the link below).

If 3-0 is correct, then if Joe won just another 2 rounds of the remaining 8 completed rounds - that would put the score at 5-6 heading into the 12th round - not actually “well ahead”.

Otherwise, if Joe only won one more round of the remaining 8 completed rounds, that would see a 4-7 score - so yeah, that’s somewhat ahead with Joe needing to take the final 4 rounds to win the fight.

Worst case - Joe won no more rounds after the 3rd - which would mean a 3-8 score line after 11 completed rounds - so well down on the cards and needing a KO to win.

I need to watch the whole fight again - I recall reading that Joe had a good 10th round, so perhaps he was awarded that round? - but of course I don’t know.

I wonder if there is a database available that is mostly reliable for searching and obtaining such scorecards.

This is the link that claims Joe was up 3-0 on all 3 score cards after the completion of 3 rounds with Max carrying some fair facial damage by that stage.

This is the link to the article that claimed Joe was 3-0 up by the end of the 3rd round: -

https://www.britishvintageboxing.com/blogs/news/max-schmeling

 

The question is backwards it should always be can they overcome Joe Louis.

 

According to this report, Schmeling was up 7-3-1 at the finish, with Louis taking the first, third and seventh, and the second even. So he actually did have a good lead after three rounds, although not quite 3-0.

https://ibb.co/Kwpt1MN

 

Provision of excellent information as always.

Thanks Solomon.

 

We should have just tagged you!!!!!! What a legend.

 

It was actually a good read too and i take particular note they said the right was "heralded as Schmeling's only punch". Interesting.

 

I know, right?

Solomon might hate me for this gushing (but due) analogy, but it really is a case of “build it” (simply put the question out there to everyone in general) and more often than not, “he” (Solomon) “will come” (with the exact answer and context).

Quite mystical really and I don’t think the surname “Deedes” is down to pure coincidence either.

 

Yeah, that might’ve been short falling Max somewhat.

 

Indeed but it was still very interesting given it was contemporary reading.

 

In truth I'd be happier if it specified whose scorecard that is. It's unlikely the referee and both ringside judges all returned identical cards.

 

True - you’d think the complete scorecards would be more easily accessed. I’ll keep looking though.

 

Sure. That's why Louis went right after him and overwhelmed him in the rematch, didn't give him room to counter and didn't play his game.
I don't think there was any other heavyweight who could counter like Schmeling.

 

Galento waged a dirty war on Louis, ringing him and home and saying things about his wife among a lot of other stuff including racial slurs. During the pre-fight instructions he made sexual remarks about Joe's wife. It was a bit of a Duran - Leonard situation and Galento did indeed get under the skin of Joe who was normally as serious as a heart attack. Perhaps joe was still seeing the good old red mist because that hook he got caught with in round one was extremely basis and he was always going to come out of that crouch with a left hook. Joe really should have been caught with that. The KD looks brilliant but for me it was a case of both guys punching at the same time and Galento got there first because it was a brilliant hook, shorter again than Joe's and as direct as a hook can be. Louis was in good balance to throw the hook but in poor balance to take one and down he went.

Louis struggled with crowders multiple times.

I've stuck up for Galento over the years - to an extent. He's got more skill than a lot of guys in here would give him credit for but he's also not craftsman that's for sure. Power and toughness were his forte. He was a bludger in training to so as funny as it might seem he didn't get the best out of himself.

There are immense stylistic aspects in some of those especially the first two. I'm not sure i consider Schmeling an out and out ATG. Ali took punches and punishment vs Foreman that would have ended others or set them up for the coupe de grace.

I could give you any amount of ATG vs ATG non blowouts.

I agree the styles favor Louis (not by thaaaat much either) but Foreman is bigger, stronger and immensely powerful and a monster finisher. He was also hugely durable and Louis often wore some leather and against far lesser fighters. Being "better" on paper didn't help a lot of guys over the decades. Foreman will have his chance......can he take it?