What was so shameful about George Foreman and the Toronto Five?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Apr 13, 2024.


  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I’m asking a group of classic boxing enthusiasts on this forum, not the general public at the time, and I’ve seen many on this forum make snide references to it. They should be above having their opinions shaped by what Ali did on TV as basically a steal-the-thunder publicity stunt — many on here go against the narrative on a lot of things boxing-related, but on this some still seem to be stuck in the ‘it was a travesty’ idea and I’m wondering why.
     
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  2. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was dumb fun, and unique part of the sport's history.

    It would be nice if some of our modern fighters would actually get in the ring with ONE guy a little more often.
     
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  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    George got the equivalent of $1.1M in today’s dollars for public sparring. That’s a pretty good deal.
     
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    What was sad at the time were the demons a still very young Foreman was fighting in front of the world squared as he he was being mocked live on air by Ali. People don’t understand how raw emotionally that Foreman was. He was horribly immature , under developed , a true man child despite serious natural innate intelligence. He was still in shock he lost to Ali and the whole event was based on showing mental strength and stamina and instead it became a circus of sorts. George tried too hard, still showed jagged edges emotionally and it played poorly … the second career George was so much more mature mentally it’s astonishing.
     
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  5. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know it’s a little out of the way to mention it but I’d love ten minutes alone in a room with whoever’s decision it was to include the Toronto 5 event in the George Foreman bio film when the Lyle fight was left out. That was beyond heart-breaking.
     
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  6. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The thing with Patterson defending against Rademacher is to much of the world the Olympics was the most prestigious honor one could win. I know its fictional but in Rocky IV Ivan Drago was a 0-0 Olympic champion.

    And yeah it was really a mental health thing set up by Foreman that Ali took advantage to make fun of. But still it was an uncommon thing that a dominant champ who just lost for the 1st time in his career was sort of above. With these carnival fights you always notice its never someone in their prime doing them.
     
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  7. newurban99

    newurban99 Active Member Full Member

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    At the time Foreman still was seen as a surly thug. It wasn't until after his first retirement from boxing that he learned to manipulate his public image as part of his pitchman work. He was still a domineering and difficult person in private but now in the public's eyes he became almost cuddly while he pocketed tens of millions of dollars marketing the burger grill.
     
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  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Personally? Because Ali and Cosell worked together to make the show unwatchable, and the audience are buying their schtick. And then Foreman gets angry enough to get into post fight brawls.

    When watching it, I want Foreman to shut Ali and Cosell up. But that can't happen.

    So it's a travesty because you're seeing a very good fighter -- who's trying to put on a fun and creative show -- getting undeservedly publicly humiliated by two attention-seeking idiots with axes to grind.

    Cosell ruined boxing matches. That's the only way I can put it. And he ruined this event, too, but good, with some help from Ali.
     
  9. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was more Ali bullying Foreman tbh.
     
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  10. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cross, I was just going through this thread to make sure there was a comment about Cosell's part in goosing Ali to gang up on George. I'm glad you are on top of it. Thanks for saving me the trouble.
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It became uncomfortable to watch as Ali was so in Foreman’s head and was taunting him from ringside that Foreman at times lost focus and tried to p,ay to Ali. At times George fought dirty, tried to be funny and wasn’t and came across as a bully. Some of the action was farce appearing. George was still a very young, confused, immature man. Mentally fragile hidden behind the bully like appearance. Cosell was revolting as often the case.
     
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    One of the more obnoxious aspects of the Ali mythos is the way that Cosell -- who was basically a fame-parasite who latched onto Ali -- gets glorified as part of the atmosphere.

    Cosell made boxing matches worse to watch and listen to. Maybe there was something about 70s people that made them enjoy his sanctimonious nasal droning, trying to insert himself as the center of attention in a boxing match he didn't understand. But it's hard for someone who didn't grow up back then to tolerate.

    And he's not an acquired taste; I only dislike him more as I get older. Patience wears thinner.
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I believe that Boone Kirkman was in that mix and he was a badass though on the back end of his career. George had already stopped him but Boone had stopped Machen, Doug Jones, Amos Lincoln, Ron Stander, beat Jimmy Ellis... Tough SOB. Became a mountain climber and a trucker after his fistic career.
     
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  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 Full Member

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    I wish Foreman had hopped out and got into an altercation with Ali “on da cobbles” (pit stop to KO HC on the way) it was beyond annoying, beyond questionable why anyone stuck him and “Howie” that vampire in there? I’ve read of Ali’s opinions on HC and they were anything but friends and if Ali the murder cult, race separatist and wife beater guy doesn’t like you… when he flirted with Larry Holmes that should’ve been when his life ended.
     
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  15. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My sentiment exactly and I grew up with it. Give me Don Dunphy any day.
     
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